Nothing could be said without some extreme and (to my mind) deliberately contentious argument leading nowhere.
Once again, trolls and/or people who've overly attached their ego to one viewpoint of another. There is a concerted effort to turn off intelligent and thoughtful people to non-mainstream points of view. And there are a lot of very neurotic people attracted to these concerns.
I've also noticed that some folks really seem to enjoy "conspiracy theories" as hobby and love to just hang out on web forums for fun.
As I implied, forums can be a place where people can commiserate with those who understand their sense of alienation. We don't need to be strictly dealing in facts. Feelings, intuition, and reasonable speculation are welcome given that we can tell the difference between them and facts.
I'm wondering if that was a call to action. Are you interested in talking about facts and 'just hanging out on web forums', or did you mean to imply that people should take action?
As far as my intent, I really haven't had the time to develop a sophisticated understanding of the issues involved. I don't know what the "big fights" are about. I'm not hip to the latest gossip. I'm just a pretty ordinary guy who used to vote Republican, then Libertarian, then was horrified by the antics of Bush I and then disturbed by the antics of Clinton and then terrified by the actions of Bush II. I've seen good friends turn into people I don't know.
I'd say that many of us fall somewhere in the middle, maybe leaning to the left, on the political spectrum. But the kind of frustration and concern you are dealing with transcends basic political orientation. We see both the right and left losing their minds based on mainstream propaganda.
Not being able to relate to people with different political views is a failure on our part as educators. Out on the street doing outreach some of those here came to recognize that it's possible to related to nearly anyone who hasn't completely closed off their skepticism. We might have been out with a 9/11 truth banner, and someone might not appreciate or understand that concern. But we were fairly successful at times finding something we DID agree about. You can't dismiss someone's insight based upon only certain views. For instance, many of the more conservative people we met on the street resonated strongly with our general concern for government oversight.
We've all been alienated from people we cared about as a result of following the information where it lead us. That's one of the non-factual aspects of this environment that is very important. It's psychologically healthy to relate to people who don't think we are nuts.
The "9/11 Truth Movement" is no help in trying to enlighten these people.
That's really sad and very true. There are people who find the information the movement offers very enlightening. But as I implied above it's not easy to be a good educator. No one here is perfect at it. We all get frustrated here and there. But on the whole, yes, the movement is a total mess and not remotely unified. Here you've run into a small pocket of those with their heads screwed on tight. And we have no interest in unifying with a good majority of the groups and "theories" we see out there. TruthMove is specifically opposed to "big tent" organizing. You don't unify facts and fallacies to increase numbers.
So, here is what I am having to learn to accept. My country, the country I served in the military and the one I dearly love, was, in fact, run by war criminals who will not be brought to justice, and the only people who seem to see this clearly spend their time bickering and quarreling on the internet.
Ouch! That's the kind of statement that sets the issue of what happened on 9/11 into some perspective. We know these people are war criminals. So then why are we bickering about less convincing reasons for that and not finding the motivation to connect with people based on what we DO agree on. Good point, and something I could benefit from keeping in mind more often.
I noticed right away that most of my "bus mates" were just partisan Democrats and they really didn't care about war crimes. They cared about getting a Democrat in White House. I voted for Obama, but really, I don't believe that the Democratic Party and Republican Party are anything other than the "good cop" and "bad cop." But I voted.
Yeah, once again, both side can have their head up their ass. And while I consider it important not to entirely deny the differences between Bush and Obama, for instance, I also know they both serve the same larger aims of dominance and consumption. We started TruthMove specifically wanting to address issues more accepted by the mainstream while not avoiding more controversial issues just because it might drive off those mainstream political types.
So imagine my frustration when I read pages and pages of argument over what happened after he supposedly said "America is under attack."
I think I get where you are coming from about unproductive speculation. What Andrew Card said is not all that central to the movement. But as you suggest that doesn't mean there aren't people wasting lots of time on concerns of equal or lesser importance. My recommendation is that you accept the fact that there isn't really any kind of functional or unified 9/11 truth movement. That was hard for me to accept, because I want to be a part of something bigger. But infiltrators and idiots have done a fairly good job of fostering distraction and preventing unity around the best evidence.
Ultimately, I'd say let's not get hung up on 9/11 truth. If you want to ask us questions, please do so. But we can't make the whole case for you as most of us did a great deal of reading and study to come to our present understanding. Debunkers come here at times acting like they are just curious and try to get us to defend our position at length. Honestly, we just don't have time for that and other issues are as if not more important. In other words, if you have your mind made up, let's just talk about other things. That could help us avoid unproductive interaction. But as I said, feel free to ask questions.