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Group promoting climate skepticism has extensive ties to Exxon-Mobil (44 posts)

  1. Victronix
    Member

    as if the vast majority of the scientific community is working in collusion to create a worldwide hoax - including Russia and China and the entire industrialized world - that a worldwide environmental crisis is unfolding.

    This is the key difference here between the facts of climate change and other issues questioned by most who tend to question the man-made aspect of climate change:

    1) none of the other issues like 9/11, JFK, FL 800, HAARP, etc are worldwide events that require the involvement of the world scientific community -- thousands of scientists -- but rather, typically involve a single national government (and collusion by other intelligence and government leaders who also benefit) with highly limited and controlled science whose evidence is completely controlled, destroyed or hidden.

    2) none of the other issues like 9/11, JFK, FL 800, HAARP, etc are ongoing events whose evidence is available to everyone all over the world to examine simultaneously using the scientific method and simple tools to measure and analyze. Scientists all over the world can and are investigating and confirming the same findings over the over and over.

    What's sad is that people who have no understanding of science are spreading a broad brush of "it's all a lie" onto everything. Evolution is not a lie. Climate change is not a lie. Many things are not lies for profit, but almost everything is manipulated for profit. Even just the remote potential for human involvement in climate change is a devastating consequence that needs to be addressed, not ignored.

    Unfortunately things like the banker bailout have only contributed to the sense that everything is just cooked up to rob us blind, so it's not surprising that this skepticism exists.

    OTOH, who benefits from the claims that human involvement is a hoax?

    Somehow, the explosion of "Ghost" propaganda (even Edmunds Scientific is selling crap to detect paranormal activity) and such suggests to me that keeping the public awash in hoaxes, or the belief that half of everything is a lie, is benefiting those who need to quickly and easily muddy the waters when it best suits them.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. JohnA
    Member

    what do you expect from a society that watches "The History Channel" - and sees nothing but endless marathons of "The Nostradamus Effect" and "UFO Hunters" and "The Bible Code"?

    the only conspiracy i see is to keep americans uneducated and ignorant.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. ObiWanKenobi
    Member

    Alex Jones? wtf Why does Alex Jones seemingly crawl his way into almost every thread? Who cares about him?

    Ok JohnA there's just no room for scepticism.

    There's no attempt by upper echelons of society to use this issue as a means of exerting more control over a frightened population.

    I mean did you vote for the United Nations? Or the World Bank, IMF?

    There only seems to be cries of "conspiracy theory" when it's not 9/11.

    9/11 rightfully needs to be thoroughly investigated but there seems to be no room for doubt, scepticism or even dissent about the theory of AGW.

    It's either your with us or against us.

    The do-somethings Vs the damned do nothing denying vested interest viruses.

    Good luck gentlemen.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. truthmod
    Administrator

    Top 10 Climate Change Deniers

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbio...

    With the Heartland Institute's annual jamboree for climate deniers in full swing in New York here's my shortlist of people who have done most for the denialist cause - in playing card form.

    Sammy Wilson Northern Ireland environment minister

    Václav Klaus President of Czech Republic

    Steve Milloy Fox News columnist

    Prof Pat Michaels Cato Institute

    Christopher Monckton Former adviser to Margaret Thatcher

    Sarah Palin Governor of Alaska

    James Inhofe Senator for Oklahoma

    Melanie Phillips Daily Mail columnist

    Christopher Booker Sunday Telegraph columnist

    David Bellamy TV presenter

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. truthmover
    Administrator

    Somehow, the explosion of "Ghost" propaganda (even Edmunds Scientific is selling crap to detect paranormal activity) and such suggests to me that keeping the public awash in hoaxes, or the belief that half of everything is a lie, is benefiting those who need to quickly and easily muddy the waters when it best suits them.

    Spot on.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. mark
    Member

    Global warming is a theory the way that gravity is a theory. One need not precisely quantify either to know they are happening.

    Governments are not going to regulate global warming - oil depletion and economic collapse will do much more to reduce greenhouse gases from burning fossil fuels than any political promises.

    The climate movement blew it by framing it solely as a need for voluntary (or mandatory) reduction, when the truth is you cannot burn fuels that do not exist. As oil depletion kicks in, there will be less oil to burn each year. Some of the remaining fossil fuels are dirtier - tar sands are the best example - but they're not going to replace the easy to get oil that we've already used.

    Last year, I took Amtrak through Colorado and was impressed by the dead forest near the pass -- the winters there are not as cold as they used to be, so the beetle populations have exploded and have killed off vast tracts of forests. Previously, the cold kept the beetles low enough for the natural processes to handle their presence, but now it's out of balance.

    I have never run into anyone who spouts "global warming is a theory" who has much first hand knowledge of ecology or agriculture. Stable climates are needed for growing food. The fact that "civilization" developed was largely because the ice ages had ended - at least for a while. Warmer winters in cold places can result in early heat that causes flowering plants to get confused, and then the late frosts zap the flowers, resulting in no food. If you like to eat food from farms this should be of interest.

    Koyaanisqatsi.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. truthmod
    Administrator

    World definitely out of balance.

    If the environmental movement is involved in dis/misinformation or has been influenced by "agents," the aim has obviously been to play down the urgency and reality of the environmental crisis and to split the movement into niche issues rather than allow a powerful, united and righteous movement to coalesce around the clearest and most alarming facts (which are all intertwined):

    Overpopulation
    Mass Extinction
    Resource Depletion
    Global Warming

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. ObiWanKenobi
    Member

    What sceptic gets a page on Google like this?

    http://www.google.com/landing/cop15/

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. JohnA
    Member

    why do you think that is? a global conspiracy? illuminati infiltration of Google? what's your point? LOL!

    you make it sound like all things must be equal. you make it sound like a...shudder... conspiracy.

    the fact of the matter is that 'sceptics' have failed to pursuad the legitimate scientific community. the overwhelming scientific evidence - and the vast majority of scientific consensus - all points in one direction.

    what is it about this that you do NOT get?

    are you saying that all tin-foil-hat theories in the minority should be elevated to equal status with actual scientific evidence?

    should we give Alex Jones equal time to Stephen Hawking?

    what the fuck?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. Victronix
    Member

    Stephen who?

    That's part of the problem. It seems that most of Alex Jones' followers reject all science unless it supports a view against the government's view, Alex's view.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. truthmod
    Administrator

    Koch Industries: Secretly Funding the Climate Denial Machine

    http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/global-war...

    Billionaire oilman David Koch likes to joke that Koch Industries is “the biggest company you've never heard of.” But the nearly $50 million that David Koch and his brother Charles have quietly funneled to climate-denial front groups that are working to delay policies and regulations aimed at stopping global warming is no joking matter.

    Charles G. Koch and David H. Koch have a vested interest in delaying climate action: they’ve made billions from their ownership and control of Koch Industries, an oil corporation that is the second largest privately-held company in America (which also happens to have an especially poor environmental record). It’s time more people were aware of Charles and David Koch and just what they’re up to.

    Greenpeace has released the report “Koch Industries: Secretly Funding the Climate Denial Machine” to expose the connections between these climate denial front groups and the secretive billionaires who are funding their efforts. The Koch brothers, their family members, and their employees direct a web of financing that supports conservative special interest groups and think-tanks, with a strong focus on fighting environmental regulation, opposing clean energy legislation, and easing limits on industrial pollution. This money is typically funneled through one of three "charitable" foundations the Kochs have set up: the Claude R. Lambe Foundation; the Charles G. Koch Foundation; and the David H. Koch Foundation.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  12. christs4sale
    Administrator

    Fred Koch was one of the founding members of the John Birch Society along with the Hunt family. As I said before, these relatively independent oil companies are not on the same side of this as the oil majors and that big oil is not monolithic.

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Koch_Fa...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  13. Victronix
    Member

    Anyone here have a response to this comment on blogger? --

    Good points Vic, but I would be careful about using global warming in the argument. It is looking pretty shaky from a scientific point of view. Sure there is some warming but it does not appear to be unusual. Some of the authors of the IPCC report have been caught using non-peer reviewed papers for their arguments, and suppressing papers by scientists who disagree. Whether CO2 is dangerous hinges on whether its small direct effect is augmented by positive feedback or is reduced by negative feedback. The IPCC assumes it is strongly positive but there is a persuasive case that it is negative. A good reference is Roy Spencer. Submitted by Frank Legge on Thu, 05/06/2010 - 12:40am

    http://911blogger.com/news/2010-05-04/cover-articl...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  14. Victronix
    Member

    Oh, here's the ref --

    http://www.drroyspencer.com/

    Posted 7 years ago #
  15. truthmod
    Administrator

    Ask them what they think about mass extinction and infinite growth/consumption (capitalism), and overpopulation. You'll find out real quickly whether they're reasonable or not.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  16. christs4sale
    Administrator

    I always like to pose the question on whether they think that the anti-global warming campaign is a campaign as well and what are the implications of it. Excellent response to Legge btw.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  17. christs4sale
    Administrator

    Article on the Koch Family in New Yorker

    I found this on Cryptogon. It is a really good article. You can see that Kevin, with his conservative-influenced political views, does not really understand how the rich fight it out in his commentary. This article discusses in part how the Koch family, which was a huge influence on the creation of JBS, is now a major funder of the Tea Party movement. It is interesting how the former geographic boundaries of the 50s and 60s (Yankee and Cowboy) have completely blurred with the Koch family being so influential in NYC.

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/1008...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  18. JohnA
    Member

    The world's most high-profile climate change sceptic is to declare that global warming is "undoubtedly one of the chief concerns facing the world today" and "a challenge humanity must confront", in an apparent U-turn that will give a huge boost to the embattled environmental lobby.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/30/...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  19. truthmod
    Administrator

    New climate disinformer fad: Ocean acidification denial
    http://climateprogress.org/2010/08/30/ocean-acidif...

    The burning of billions of tons of fossil fuels every year is altering our planet — not only by making our atmosphere trap more heat, but also by changing the chemistry of the ocean. For background, see 2010 Nature Geoscience study: Oceans are acidifying 10 times faster today than 55 million years ago when a mass extinction of marine species occurred.

    Since ocean acidification is one of the most dangerous and best-documented impacts we face on our current path of unrestricted greenhouse gas emissions, the anti-science disinformers naturally have trained their Tobacco-industry tactics on it, as Wonk Room’s Brad Johnson explains in this cross-post.

    Much of the carbon dioxide pollution put into the air is absorbed by the world’s oceans. Dissolved as carbonic acid, the pollution increases the acidity of the oceans, which is disrupting the marine food chain, especially by making it more difficult for plankton, corals, mollusks, and crustaceans to form their calciferous shells. In 2009, the Interacademy Science Panel, a network of 70 national science academies, warned that fossil fuel pollution must be rapidly reduced to “avoid substantial damage to ocean ecosystems”:

    Posted 7 years ago #

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