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(Article) The 9/11 Truth Movement and Conspiracy Theorists (11 posts)

  1. Dem Bruce Lee Styles
    Member

    (Article) The 9/11 Truth Movement and Conspiracy Theorists

    The 9/11 Truth Movement and Conspiracy Theorists – A Call To Readdress Priorities

    David Shayler on BBC Radio 2’s "The Jeremy Vine Show" (mp3)

    “The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments.” - Friedrich Nietzsche, German philosopher (1844 - 1900)

    On Thursday February 15th 2006, BBC Radio 2’s “Jeremy Vine show” devoted a large section of the broadcast to “9/11 Conspiracy Theories” in light of the then upcoming BBC program “The Conspiracy Files”. The show gets around 5.8 million listeners a day while it’s on primetime noon till two, Mondays to Fridays. On as guests to discuss the “9/11 Conspiracy Theories” were former MI5 agent David Shayler and journalist Brendan O’Neill, who authored the article “Meet the No Planers” for The New Statesman magazine.

    “You won’t believe the latest one”, said Jeremy Vine while quickly reminding the audience of what was later to come in the show, “Or maybe you will” he continued, “which is that the planes were not planes they were Hologramed Missiles.” At which point the nation listening collectively recoiled in a mixture of bewilderment, disgust and disbelief (Or at least that’s how I imagined normal British people, going about their daily lives, would react upon hearing such insanity). Where would such mad nonsense come from? Where would Jeremy Vine have got that idea and got in the context where it would be relevant enough to mention? Well it appears from David Shayler’s mouth;

    "Yes, I believe no planes were involved in 9/11… The only explanation is that they were missiles surrounded by holograms made to look like planes… Watch the footage frame by frame and you will see a cigar-shaped missile hitting the World Trade Center”.

    Continued: http://911blogger.com/node/6608

    Posted 17 years ago #
  2. Victronix
    Member

    Excellent post.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  3. truthmod
    Administrator

    eh shayler...

    then what did i see and hear pass over my head? did they also have a sophisticated amplification system playing the the sound of a jet passing over at low altitude? bollocks to you and your MI5 background.

    the hit campaign is deep. screw these people. and fetzer? yeah he can sound rational when he chooses, but don't buy it. don't you think he wants to maintain some stature within the movement, be asked to speak, continue to do interviews, etc. he can't alienate everyone, or else he becomes completely ineffective.

    the problem with a lot of us is that we're naive; we want to believe that these people really are trying to help us when their words and actions are actually doing great harm to our movement.

    do not tolerate it! call it out.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  4. Victronix
    Member

    But part of the outcome of extremist hoaxes is to make the subtle hoaxes - i.e., a commercial jet didn't hit the Pentagon and the many versions of that - seem reasonable to give space to and concede to. The STJ911 forum is packed with no plane at the Pentagon people (i.e., the creator of "Pentacon") and it really creates a swamp of nuttiness on there, a far worse outcome for real research and outreach getting done then the more easily rejected obvious lunacy.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  5. coconut
    Member

    I wish David Shayler would dump the hologram theory. What scientific evidence (or even logic, for that matter) is there to back this up? Same with the pod and Pentagon missile theories. Cannon fodder for official story apologists.

    It's actually fairly disheartening to see someone with a background like Shayler's talking about holograms.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  6. Victronix
    Member

    I wish David Shayler would dump the hologram theory.

    He's more than likely with an specific agenda to discredit the movement. No one that any of us know actually believe in holograms unless they already have a prescription for an antipsychotic. I expect no one knows who the real Shayler is.

    The slickness of the original creator of the hologram site - the webfairy - speaks to the disconnect between beliefs verging on psychosis, and the ability to create or pay to have created such a slick, widespread and high-ranking website. The hoax sites have very high ranking because they have professionals working them. Do real professionals think that holograms are being used to disguise missiles or that planes have pods attached to them that fire missiles? Not likely.

    When you think for a moment about these situations, they don't make a lot of sense anymore.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  7. coconut
    Member

    Indeed. Given his background, he very easily could be part of a disinformation campaign along the lines of COINTELPRO, but I believe we should consider an alternative hypothesis: that he's just gullible enough to believe in holograms.

    I agree with your point about the hoax sites. I used to associate with some hoax-promoters (like the pod and no-757 people), and from what I've seen it's very easy to get sucked into believing in these ideas. The likes of Phil Jayhan, Dave von Kleist et al have many supporters, which is fairly unfortunate for those of us who want to avoid speculation and stick to facts and scientific rigour.

    Speaking of Phil Jayhan and your mention of psychosis, I believe this man is nothing less than psychotic whenever you try to address his pod theory. I remember one thread I started about a year ago on his forum, which attempted to address the pod theory and propose that it might be mistaken - the man went absolutely ballistic. The pod people and no-planers cling to their theories with the same unreasonable defensiveness as those who froth at the mouth while accusing us all of being conspiracy nuts, and if David Shayler isn't a man with an agenda and was simply misled into believing in holograms, I don't think he'll turn around any time soon.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  8. truthmod
    Administrator

    stodgy inflexible thinking is the enemy of the truth movemen

    anything can become dogma or faith-based. we must be ever vigilant and willing to question our current beliefs. it's a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it.

    gullibility is an excuse only up to the point where people refuse to look at reasonable, factual evidence that contradicts and throws into doubt their claims or beliefs.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  9. Victronix
    Member

    that he's just gullible enough to believe in holograms.

    I doubt it. It's one thing if the homeless guy down the street is "gullible" and another when the ex-MI-5 agent is "gullible." They are different.

    At the very least he must be aware that his views are not shared by the vast majority of activists, and therefore he knows he does not represent them yet goes ahead and says this anyway. Anyone who puts out these types of theories to news people is reckless and not responsible enough to be in any type of leadership position.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  10. truthmod
    Administrator

    facade

    i believe that one of the first things they teach in spy school or undercover work is to continue to project a false, unwavering sheen of consistency no matter what happens. disinfo agents like fetzer, reynolds, shayler are all prepared to be called out, yet they will never, ever react in such a way as to confirm that they are consciously deceiving and damaging our movement. that is how they somehow retain stature and can continue to infiltrate the movement. this refusal to acknowledge their false statements is usually backed by feigning ignorance, gullibility, eccentricity, and also false confidence.

    do you think we would tolerate these people at all if we KNEW they were agents? no, they would be run out of the movement immediately. yet because they can retain this doubt in people's minds: "well, maybe he's just mistaken or gullible or stupid or crazy," we continue to let them be and carry out their sinister work.

    i say the next conference/event one of these people shows up at, a "no more bullshit/no more agents" contingent shows up and shouts them off the stage in an organized, forceful manner.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  11. Victronix
    Member

    i say the next conference/event one of these people shows up at, a "no more bullshit/no more agents" contingent shows up and shouts them off the stage in an organized, forceful manner.

    Yes! They're always disrupting our events or doing simultaneous hoax events, so why not disrupt theirs? Sign me up for the contingent.

    Posted 17 years ago #

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