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Time to Hit Back. (4 posts)

  1. Union
    Member

    Time to Hit Back.

    We have a problem...

    Listening to all arguments and researching on my own for more than two years now:
    I feel that our time is running up if we want to reach any goal in the movement.

    And here is why:
    **
    We see good people watching crappy videos and wondering about Osama fakes...
    We see good people dissecting footage frame by frame to proof TV-Fakery...
    We see good people watching impact videos and speculating about a flash...
    We see good people breaking their minds about holes in Shanksville...
    We see good people wondering if there were planes at the towers...
    We see good people analyzing the FDR data over and over again...
    We see good people speculating about a fly over...

    And the worst of all...
    We see good people fighting each other and dividing the movement.
    **

    And what did we gain so far...?

    Even if there were no planes in NY, there was no plane in Shanksville, there was a fly over at the Pentagon, the confession tape was fabricated, there were bombs in these buildings, everything was planted and all footage was faked ... It would mean absolutely nothing!

    Because we still would not know any names.

    Yes, we probably would get our investigation! ... But we already know what happened in the first investigation: We would have another whitewash. THEY would classify important documents, THEY would distort the facts, THEY would refuse to tell the truth, THEY would deny their personal knowledge ... And finally some people would be punished!!!

    And the real perpetrators would still be free...

    So we cannot hope for another official whitewash. I do not want another JFK. I do not want another Oklahoma City Bombing. I do not want another Gulf of Tonkin. I do not want another “Piss off! ... Official case closed!”.

    But this is what will happen if the Government changes in 2008.

    And even if we still hope and struggle for justice, no ordinary citizen will think any longer about it.
    They will think: “Bush and Cheney are gone. Everything is fine. And everything will get better now.”

    So sad...

    So what chance do we have? - What do we have to do?

    Ask yourself:

    “Do I want to change something?”

    “Do I have a goal in the movement and what is it?”

    “Am I doing the right thing/the right research to reach my goal?”

    “Am I wasting my time and maybe there are better ways to reach my goal?”

    “Am I part of the 9/11 movement?”

    “So what is my goal to help the movement?”

    If you know your personal goal then we are able to find a collective goal. A shared, defined goal that would help us to keep the movement on focus, to get us back on track, we could get rid of theories that doesn´t help us to reach the shared goal, we could stop the annoying infighting, we could research the unresearched, big smoking guns like ISI and the Saudis. We really would be able to move something, able to make a difference, perhaps change history books and our world.

    And I believe we already have this shared goal:

    Find. And punish the Perpetrators!

    Now it is your decision to do something - or let the movement die. Discuss - and find a shared path. Start a poll if you want to check your friends opinons. Do something. I will now abstain for a while because this is not about me - and it needs some time to. Think about it!

    Posted 17 years ago #
  2. truthmod
    Administrator

    Thanks Union...

    I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying.

    We do have a big problem and if the movement can't get its shit together, we could end up in worse shape than we were 5 years ago.

    This is a battle for people's minds--either to help them see the truth or keep them from it. Our opponents act on many different levels, always with the macro-historical view in mind--public opinion, social movement, and mass psychology.

    From what I can tell, it seems the strategy may be to float the balloon of 9/11 Truth in popular (but inaccurate and debunkable) forms (Loose Change, In Plane Sight, no planes, Fetzer, etc), and to thus create a sort of sloppy, half-ass version of 9/11 Truth in the social consciousness. Then, to pop this balloon by effectively countering all of the straw man arguments and sloppy research.

    The result would be that the majority of the public, who only ever got into 9/11 truth superficially (i.e. saw Loose Change and Pentagon Strike), will be neutralized as their mental framework for "government conspiracy" or "inside job" is dismantled. Remember, most people (probably me included) have a psychological tendency to want the "inside job" meme NOT to be true. This gives the opposition a certain advantage.

    True "9/11 Researchers" are a tiny minority--people who've actually done more than watch a DVD or two and browsed a website. We, as dedicated activists who have been studying and reading for years, are not the real target of the opposition. They're more concerned with whether 9/11 Truth has an effect on society as a whole (and their class grip on power) than if there are 10-100,000 isolated 9/11 truth nerds who KNOW it was an inside job.

    If Loose Change Final Cut is sensational and not factually accurate, it is easy to imagine the balloon of attention being floated and then popped by systematic mainstream media debunking stories. Our movement could be left in tatters if such a scenario does play out.

    We are truly at a crossroads here. The movement can take responsibility for itself and organize a national leadership structure and operate with efficiency, passion, and certain standards or we can continue the Big Tent march toward oblivion.

    People get all sensitive when you start talking about leaders, exclusivity, or even standards. Tough shit. That's how things get done, particularly when you have the most powerful people in the world out to subvert your cause.

    Posted 17 years ago #
  3. sonny505
    Member

    i know i am knew to this forum, and for 5 years i had only my sister to talk to about my beleifs on really happend on9/11

    i can honestly tell you this, thier are people, who dont want you guys to succeed. we all know why, by succedding in your movement, not just the nation, but an entire global population would have to start questioning thier own beleifs. governments would realise that they have lost all control of disinformation to its general public. by allowing an outside force to decide the ultimate direction of this movement u are in a sense, giving into the popualr beleife that we are complete idiots that have no organization or true proof of that day.

    Please do not let them decide where we go from here. we cannot let the victoms or the famlies of those victoms down. we know and they know that we are the only ones who have the balls to stand upto the government and really dont care about how we are seen for it. you are doing exactly what they hoped you would, obviousley you are making some kind of progress into the mainstream. or else thier wouldnt be dissention in the ranks.

    reguardless of what u may beleive or want to beleive, thier are people will do anything to destroy what u have worked so hard to build. sooner or later thier will be enough public outcry that soemone will have to do something. and when that time comes, this movement can be the ones that say "we did it for them, not us"

    Posted 17 years ago #
  4. osram
    Member

    Wonderful Topic. ;)

    The way to fight back is with their own weapons which include "psychological warfare" and the true leaders remaining hidden from the public.

    I allow myself to quote one of my replies on ATS to the 345th version of a topic called "are we doomed to failure".

    I apologize for the awful paragraphing but i certainly believe to have some interesting approaches to viable solutions. I hope it to be more or less "understandable":

    posted on 26-3-2007 @ 03:39

    I know that many people try to convince others of "conspiracy practics". (Not theories) What a horrible unword to be honest. And it's hard to convince people which are way too prejudiced and involved in society themselves.

    I guess the attempt has to be fighting our enemy with their own weapons.

    If they use Symbolism and Subconscious Manipulation to keep the majority quiet, the people should do the same to propagate the truth:

    There isn't only Prejudices and Subjective opinions. Although the current situation might make us believe there is only that kind of information, the truth is:

    There is only one truth. There are not 5 truths, or 5 parallel Realities. There is only one.
    Sure, it will always be described in an incomplete way. Every subjective interpretation or description done with language, words or images is not an actual event taking place. After all we have our limits.

    To answer your question: Truth would be to publish something as close to the truth as possible, and not doing the opposite. To publish the opposite of facts to pursue private/corporate goals. (Lies)

    For instance; I had a chance appearing of a mate who sprayed on walls in our school times. I recently met him by coincidence on the street and he naturally was very happy to see me even if i didnt call him for a year. He is the type of guy who's always looking for friends, and he doesn't even realize if someone doesn't really like him.

    My idea was to convince him of Conspiracy in first place.
    As a second step it would be needed to manipulate him, to start a new movement, a subculture precisely.

    To do such an "experiment" I would need to pretend friendship, trust.. etc. and use Forbidden rhetorics to get him where i want him to be. And to make him do what i want him to do.

    So the goal would be to create a growing, autonomous subculture - Some kind of a "Sprayer-Crew". Which follows a larger philosophy and doesn't simply Tag their unreadable Names on Walls anymore.

    They would Tag stuff like the Illuminati Triangle with "War on Terra" below. Or internet Adresses combined with catchy/provocating phrases or symbols.

    I know it sounds a bit "basic". Using Walls to give out a message in the "REAL" world, not on the web.

    But often the most simple ideas are the most genius or efficient ones.

    Concluding I also have to say that in such an "experiment" almost every tactic of the powerful few would be involved;

    Manipulation, Propaganda and staying invisible. Because of not participating actively in those Actions.
    Apart from that Autonomous Projects or Subcultures are the only way to change something. They can go on and grow even if the Leader or inventor is gone.

    I know it sounds really wierd, and I'm not the type of guy to use forbidden rhetorics. But after all it is for a bigger, benevolent goal.

    Just an Idea/Example.

    Posted 17 years ago #

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