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Sudden rise in "TV Fakery" topics... (19 posts)

1. SkepticGuy
   Member

   Hello fine folk... been busy on a few things... have a question.

   There appears to be a sudden "push" in no-plane "TV Fakery" theories which trace their origins back to Nico Haupt. Over the past 3-4 days, we've been hit with an intense and highly passionate posts effort to promote these theories:

   http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread285360/p... ABC Live 911 Coverage was Totally Fake -- this one seems to have been destroyed here: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread285360/p...

   http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread285703/p... PSYOP Stock Footage Shown on 9/11

   http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread285361/p... CNN TV Fakery Proven: Terror Drills shown as 9/11 Coverage

   http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread285362/p... CNN TV Fakery: Still Photos become "exclusive video"

   http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread285363/p... Loose Change working with 9/11 Perps

   I must confess to not having paid much attention to Nico after the NY911 Urantia debacle. But these "media fakery" topics seem so easily destroyed by our members, I'm wondering what is behind this sudden rise in promoting what our members are calling conspiracy hoaxes.

   Have you people here had any speculative discussions on the motives for this recent "push"?

   Thanks.

   Posted 16 years ago #
2. truthmod
   Administrator

   We haven't noticed the recent push, besides a couple emails Nico sent trying to promote his "video mashups." I suppose Nico might be getting desperate for attention or maybe one of these disinfo specialists just discovered ATS.

   I would say ignore and/or ban these people if all they do is spam your forum with disinformation.

   Posted 16 years ago #
3. SkepticGuy
   Member

   We're close to banning them from a decorum standpoint.

   We specialize in allowing/enabling the discussion of nearly anything, as long as participants are polite and collaborative. The "bsregistration" user is becoming more and more confrontational. I'm sure we'll be added to their list of "banned at _____" sites.

   Posted 16 years ago #
4. JohnA
   Member

   There is indeed a very sharp increase in the volume of posts supposedly originating from a handful of core members of 911Researchers.com

   the poster you reference - bsregistration - is known in other forums as simply "Fred" and is responsible for some of the most eggregious of these posts - and appears to be a major disruptor with semi-threatening undertones to his posts.

   On a personal note - and just as an example - bsregistration aka "Fred" - has been posting on multiple boards that i may personally be a member of Al Qaeda - and should be arrested. he has speculated that i should be subjected to 'rendition' - which is of course a euphomism for torture. he specifically mentions waterboarding me.

   he has gone on to accuse me of advocating violence. I have had multiple mutiple reports of "Fred" harassing and threatening other members of this movement.

   This is dangerous language and rumor mongering - intended to scare and intimidate. it places my safety and the safety of my family at risk.

   The no planes posts have increased sharply in the last several months - including a SHARP increase in video production swamping the internet on this subject. one is forced to wonder WHO could have the time to edit and distribute so much video content - on nearly a DAILY basis.

   these posts have attacked message boards in europe as well - with the no plane advocates attacking UK message boards that I am currently working with.

   i am forced to wonder if this disinformation campaign is in any way related to this contract:

   "A number of indefinite-delivery, indefinite-quantity contracts have been issued by the U.S. Department of Defense for "media approach planning, prototype product development, commercial quality product development, product distribution and dissemination, and media effects analysis for the Joint Psychological Operations Support Element and other government agencies." All contracts were awarded on a competitive basis pursuant to FAR 6.102. Work will include activities both within and outside the continental United States (CONUS), and task orders may be issued over the next five years from June 7, 2005 - June 6, 2010"

   Within and outside the continental US.

   "We would like to be able to use cutting-edge types of media," said Col. James A. Treadwell, director of the Joint Psychological Operations Support Element, a part of Tampa-based U.S. Special Operations Command.

   for an interesting review of the relationship between Nico Haupt and other "aburdist theory" disinformation artists - see this chart:

   http://crisisinamerica.org/media/disinformation.ht...

   My advice to you is to very PUBLICLY ban this poster - and take a brave stand against known disinformation sources.

   best regards

   Posted 16 years ago #
5. SkepticGuy
   Member

   Excellent information.

   At least one of our members seems convinced Nico is part of a serious effort to discredit 9/11 truth (and seems to be basing this on direct conversations with Nico).

   "bsregistration" is on stern notice... we'll see where he goes next.

   This is his latest: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread286042/p...

   Posted 16 years ago #
6. JohnA
   Member

   you will note the following quotes by "BSReg":

   "I took your advice and saw a shrink yesterday. He told me that you fit the profile of a "Simple Obsessional Stalker" and that I should consider taking out a restraining order against you. Maybe you belong HERE, Gen.Disarry, at the Mental Hospital of 911 Truth. "

   so here you see the same MO of starting the insinuation process. words like "stalking" and "crazy lunatic" and "dangerous" are injected into the conversation and repeated - over and over again - until they stick.

   One poster responded:

   "Never in 5 plus years of being on this board I have never witnessed a member being allowed to treat other members in the way that BS does."

   quite true.

   you woll also note:

   "Is piacenza and BS the same individual? The mannerisms seems very similar and the tone and accusations are very similar also."

   quite true

   The one thing you will note that is earily similar between all of the individuals who participate in this 'circle' (namely, Killtown, Rick Siegel, Jim Fetzer, Nico Haupt, Coffinman, etc etc) is the seemingly IMPENETRABLE nature of their approach in debating. it almost seems like that have no REAL interest in defending their theories - instead using them to bait people into protracted debates filled with intentionally frustrating diversions and insults and accusation. They seem disinterested in fact or evidence yet portray themselves as passionately convinced of their own positions.

   This is very similar to Judy Woods' theory regarding "space beam." A thorough review of her website finds tons of content and photos and scientific terms (of her own making) while there is NO substantive scientific evidence or calculations presented.

   In a recent interview with Greg Jenkins she was repeatedly asked "How much energy is necessary to disintegrate steel." - which is the premise of her theory. the interview descended into accusations and histrionics. she was impenetrable.

   in fact - she still presents photos that have been debunked and misinterpreted.

   the fact that many of these researchers appear to share IP addresses is also damning.

   look - take a SERIOUS look at www.911researchers.com and make an intellectually honest and unbiased decision regarding its content. Review the research in good faith - with an open mind - and ask yourself if there is anything there. anything.

   but - if you STILL remain unconvinced - take a look at THIS video placed on the homepage of this website some time ago and ask yourself how it is POSSIBLE that so MANY researchers all associated with his SAME circle of researchers could POSSIBLY all condone and support images like this:

   http://www.911researchers.com/node/454

   Posted 16 years ago #
7. truthmod
   Administrator

   Everybody knows

   These people aren't fooling anyone. Ban and ignore, it's all we can do. Never, ever get seduced into a debate with them. Their only objective is to waste your time, make you look stupid, and drive you crazy.

   http://www.truthmove.org/resources/videos/highligh...

   Posted 16 years ago #
8. SkepticGuy
   Member

   "she still presents photos that have been debunked and misinterpreted"

   This is true of Les and Tom at ground zero as well. Much of the material on their ground zero posters has been long since effectively refuted.

   There are so many members ripping their ideas to shreds, our hope is that we end up being an excellent resource for the demise of their ideas.

   For example, in mere days, we're the #3 Google return for "TV fakery" for a thread bsregistration started. However, that particular thread quickly shows their motives and fabricated "evidence."

   Posted 16 years ago #
9. JohnA
   Member

   we need a team of dedicated disinfo busters who will follow these clowns around the internet - everywhere they post - and counter-post a general disclaimer directing people to look at the evidence indicating these individuals are spreading disinfo/disruption.

   no debate. no dialogue with them. just a disclaimer that will be posted over and over and over and over again - everywhere they live and breath online - well written - with links to the evidence illustrating WHO these people are. Their own words are enough to hang them.

   with the right approach we could actually TURN this disinformation campaign in our favor by proving that this is organized disruption - and using as one more piece of evidence of a massive cover-up associated with 9/11.

   i understand the resistance of many in the movement to engage these guys and take them on. they are ruthless in their smear campaigns. but - at THIS point the evidence is SO overwhelming against them that it may be the ideal time to act in unison to confront them.

   Posted 16 years ago #
10. SkepticGuy
    Member

    Several of our members have composed compelling rebuttals that have been ignored, and I'm sure other sites have much much more. Let me know if we can help.

    Posted 16 years ago #
11. truthmod
    Administrator

    good idea. don't let people waste time formulating and researching the complete rebuttal themselves, just have one set to go.

    Posted 16 years ago #
12. SkepticGuy
    Member

    One of our members provided a solid contribution here: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread286042/p...

    Three posts, one commentary, and two that provide links to dozens of issues with the TV Fakery concept.

    I must say, his "turf war" comment is an interesting notion.

    Posted 16 years ago #
13. SkepticGuy
    Member

    Well... the madness is gaining traction.

    One of our members is calling this absurd material the latest salvo in an escalating turf war of attention among 9/11 truth/conspiracy groups/sites. I think at a minimum, that's an appropriate description.

    I've also noticed that much of their source material is based on The WebFairy, which was long ago exposed as creating fraudulent videos and doctored photos.

    Posted 16 years ago #
14. thevillage
    Member

    Look -- this is a new proposition -- it should be looked at and considered with some seriousness as far as I can see.

    Nor do I find anyone demanding that I believe this new theory --

    When we supposedly went to the moon, no one had a tape recorder at home -- and the equipment the government used to "record" was tremendous in size.

    When our CIA has traveled the world doing mischief, mayhem and murder, they practiced many of these false flag operations -- they are well practiced.

    When Malcolm X noted at the JFK assassination that these "chickens were coming home to roost" what he meant was that these fascist practices were being used on Americans .

    Obviously, we in America are under fascist threat from our own government which has led us into an "illegal" war of aggression against Iraq for control of the ME and its oil.

    Obviously, many of these same people have been responsible for past political violence in America --

    Why think that they would hesitate to carry out the PNAC's dream of another Pearl Harbor???

    You should also read the number of opinions on why using actual planes would have been dangerous for the perpetrators --

    And, remember . . . they tried in '93 and were unsuccesful --

    Posted 16 years ago #
15. Arabesque
    Member

    There is no question that these TV fakery people are part of an intentional campaign. Here is how "Above Top Secret" put it:

    “We seem to be among several sites targeted by a recently formed "9/11 Research" group who espouses a particularly provocative theory of "no planes at the WTC" and "TV Fakery." What we (staff and [members]) have noticed about this group is that their individuals engage in what they hope is an IMPENETRABLE approach in debating. They appear to [have] no REAL interest in defending or discussing their theories. Instead they use provocative ideas and inflammatory language ("shills" for example) to bait people into extended debates filled with intentionally frustrating diversions, insults and accusation. Their activity in ATS threads prove they are disinterested in fact, reason, logic, or evidence while attempting to portray themselves as passionately convinced of their own highly questionable positions.”

    Perhaps this increased activity is due to the closeness of the 9/11 anniversary. We can expect a lot of hit pieces, and it quite reasonable to think that some of the more absurd theories will be highlighted by the MSM as part of their 2-part strategy:

    1. Create Disinfo intentionally
    2. Highlight and Debunk the Disinfo

    I'm working on a research post on the 9/11 no-plane disinfo right now. Here is the preliminary version--it's not just a no-plane post, it deals with some of the other plane theories as well:

    The 9/11 Plane Theories and the “Conspiracy Theory Method” http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/2007/07/no-plane-...

    Posted 16 years ago #
16. sweetsacrifice
    Member

    May i offer quick advise?

    I HIGHLY encourage you to treat anyone and everyone as if you were having a talk with a stranger at a street action. Regardless of what we think of the persons view, we need open dialog and freedom of idea's both ways. Just the same, if they are making verbal threats-such as claimed on the "fred" individual-then i would say there is justification for blocking them. Outside of that, please don't. We should not become what we are fighting against. If we believe we have truth on our side, we have all we need, just as we have told those stations/"leaders" who have blacked us out.

    I hope this comes of use to everyone.

    Posted 16 years ago #
17. Victronix
    Member

    Regardless of what we think of the persons view, we need open dialog and freedom of idea's both ways.

    Normally I would treat people in that way -- if I met them on the street, or with a group of people I knew, or at a group meeting with people I mostly knew. But the people advocating TV Fakery are essentially professionals. They are not average people that any of us typically know in any other capacity than 9/11. They are often highly articulate people with college educations and careers, some of whom have held high level positions in government, some of whom have been awarded up to $100,000 in grant money.

    Yet they advocate nonsense, while remaining perfectly functional in most other ways.

    Doesn't add up.

    And the fact is, most of them aren't interested in "getting along" anyway, and that's been shown over and over again. They are interested in "turning the world off" to 9/11 by making us look like utter nutcases. You can spend the rest of your life trying to get along and they would like nothing better.

    If we believe we have truth on our side, we have all we need

    Actually, when you have the intelligence agencies and roomfuls of people wearing camo while they tap away online fighting the "war on terror", with unlimited funding on their side, "let's all along" won't get you very far at all. In fact, you should be bracing for impact right now with the wave of crap that will come at us in the next months from both sides -- FOX News hosting Morgan Reynolds on one side to tell how a plane never hit the WTC, and on the other side, Rolling Stone using Matt Taibbi to trash us to everyone they can as hard as they can. If you don't stand up against both of these, you lose the information war. It has 2 fronts, not one.

    Posted 16 years ago #
18. truthmod
    Administrator

    Speculation gets us nowhere. Go with the sourced and confirmed facts and we can't be denied. Plane swapping, DEW, pods, no-planes, etc. all put us into the category of speculators and theorists while established facts give us credibility as true researchers and journalists.

    Posted 16 years ago #
19. Arabesque
    Member

    Speculation gets us nowhere. Go with the sourced and confirmed facts and we can't be denied. Plane swapping, DEW, pods, no-planes, etc. all put us into the category of speculators and theorists while established facts give us credibility as true researchers and journalists.

    The sooner people figure this out the better for the 9/11 truth movement. I don't object to speculation. I object to speculation without any credible evidence to back it up. I object to claiming that passengers don't exist without taking 5 minutes of research to find out if they do or not.

    Simply put, it is a waste of energy to debate things that can't be proven. How does this bring us closer to Justice? To another investigation?

    Posted 16 years ago #

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