Ugh...
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Enough Is Enough (144 posts)
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Posted 16 years ago #
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Here's a great comparison of the evolution that our movement has gone through. The first is from Jan's site from years past. The second link contains pictures from present day.
2004 - 2005 - http://digitalstyledesigns.com/pages/signarchive.h...
2006 - 2007 - http://www.wearechange.org/pics/9-11-07/index.php
Also, here's a very interesting video that I think all of you should view....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwnsEX9hapQ
...So, WHEN is enough, enough?
Posted 16 years ago # -
In the last four days, I've had three threads "hijacked" by Controlled Demolition "advocates."
http://www.911blogger.com/node/11521#comment-16221... http://www.911blogger.com/node/11444#comment-16167...
With "what does this have to do with 9/11", and "you're a shill" type comments...
This is the information the media IGNORED for the most part, and have continued to IGNORE to this very day.
I think there just might be a reason why.
Posted 16 years ago # -
In the last four days, I've had three threads "hijacked" by Controlled Demolition "advocates."
There a bunch of smart asses on 911blogger who have nothing better to do that moan, complain, and start fights with users. Why do they insist on commenting on "Jon Gold"?
It's a fact that the "MIHOP" diehard Webster Tarpley has pushed the importance of Edmond's testimony. It's too bad that these troublemakers are either poor researchers, or lack common sense.
I think they are just jealous of you. Either that, or they have way too much free time on their hands. I say: Ignore them.
Posted 16 years ago # -
I'm not giving them the time of day.
Posted 16 years ago # -
Jon you've done some really good posts on blogger lately, packed with a ton of good info, history, refs, etc. Just keep doing that. Eventually they will get it that they have no impact on you.
Posted 16 years ago # -
Lately? :)
Posted 16 years ago # -
Start from the beginning. I didn't post it for my health...
http://www.911blogger.com/blog/7?page=23
;)
Thank you for the advice Victronix, and nice words.
Posted 16 years ago # -
Yes, the 'Who Is' series is very well formatted and also comprehensive. You should consider making a booklet . . . . if you aren't already.
Another thing you could consider is pulling out 5 simple summary statements from each of those posts to put in a bullet list with a series of link refs at the end of each one, maybe at the end of each post.
That's time consuming, but it would help the ADHD crowd who are pulled constantly to boldface, button icons, hotlinks and video stills with a large arrow to click on to make it go. Bullet lists which are boldface and one line long are readable for them.
Posted 16 years ago # -
Thanks. You mean people like the pretty pictures? Wolsey gets on me about pictures for his site.
Posted 16 years ago # -
That's a very scary video TruthAndJustice911.
I don't like that type of music. This is as "metal" as I get.
Posted 16 years ago # -
Questions and thoughts about the CD vs. non-CD dichotomy.
First off, I'd say it's unfortunate that there is a hard-nosed, white-knuckling-it split, but that's where it's at. In that case, how does ones position on CD reflect upon ones awareness about 9/11 proper, about 9/11 Truth within the movement, and about 9/11 Truth in regards to the public at large?
Basically what qualifies as sufficient and exacting awareness in regards to 9/11? I worry that the endgame tends to cloud the process. 9/11 Truth isn't a mystery suspense thriller in which everybody is essentially playing on the same rules of logic. CD may be the main point of a heightened logical disconnect between those in the 9/11 Truth Movement and the public at large.
At the same time, we can talk theories and facts to the public for, well, ever and ever. Both theories and facts rarely crack the logical disconnect, or cognitive dissonance, of the general public. Cognitive dissonance is inherent in the inside job, and generally functions as the beginning, middle, and end of most conversations about 9/11. I wonder if the cognitive dissonance at large has fueled the CD vs. non-CD dichotomy within the movement, that the debate is a symptom of helplessness in regards to the breakdown of cultural logic.
We need to undo, or at least encourage the undoing of, the psyop that is 9/11.
Posted 16 years ago # -
WOW... I went to wtcdemolition.com today just out of curiosity to see how much they've actually commented about me.
http://www.wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/355 http://www.wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/364 http://www.wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/366 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/126 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/196 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/137 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/107 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/119 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/123 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/29 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/130 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/143 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/150 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/347 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/32 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/287 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/96 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/217 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/149 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/147 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/120 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/114 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/117 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/231 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/99 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/118 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/124 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/88 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/201 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/227 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/47 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/170 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/229 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/3 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/112 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/189 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/161 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/58 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/84 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/82 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/100 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/61 http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/83
Who has time to think of someone so much? I hate Jim Fetzer, but you don't see me writing slanderous things about him. You don't see me waste time on such things. What kind of people do that?
Posted 16 years ago # -
What the hell is wtcdemolition.com? I wish I never heard of this. Looks like another 911researchers.
Getting caught up in flame wars, gossip, and shit-talking gets us nowhere. Let's let these people fade away into nothingness.
The movement must not be about personalities and personal gripes. Our opponents want to turn it into high school, britney spears, and the national enquirer: to have opinions, differences, feuds, and fluff take up all our time and energy.
Posted 16 years ago # -
It's 911researchers.com with a Zionist twist. It's run by "Real Truther" from 911Blogger.com and casseia. It's nothing but a Holocaust denial site that promotes the idea that the Zionists were responsible for the 9/11 attacks, and BushCo. shouldn't even be considered.
Posted 16 years ago # -
I think you mean an "anti-Zionist" twist, but we're really not much like 911researchers.com.
Here's the statement of purpose from the front page:
"This site encourages discussion and analysis of news and facts surrounding the events of 9/11. We begin from the premise that many if not most aspects of the events have been lied about and/or covered up by the government and media. We discourage excessive speculation not based on verifiable evidence, such as claims of "video fakery" with regard to the planes that struck the towers. We will not tolerate racist or otherwise bigoted comments, and in turn will not tolerate baseless charges of bigotry. Our desired goal is a provocative and informative resource for those who feel that the issue of 9/11 merits serious and thought-provoking discussion and debate."
I don't think the site itself has an official position, but probably most of the users agree that Zionists -- American, Israeli, and of whatever other nationality -- probably did participate in the 9/11 attacks. It is a simple fact that there was overlap in the group of authors both of the PNAC document and the preceding, parallel document intended to influence Israeli foreign policy, "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm." That's not proof, but it is provocative.
I am an anti-Zionist -- I believe that Zionism is a racist political ideology. I think that Israel is an apartheid state. These are my opinions and I am generally very civil about them. I am also a very outspoken critic of anti-Semites/Jew-haters, and tend to be considerably less civil on that topic. I have loudly criticized the local Truther community for their collaboration with Eric May, who is certainly a Jew-hater, and for that I have received obscene and slanderous public attacks and even physical intimidation from members of the Truth group I used to belong to. Online, I have been repeatedly -- and erroneously -- labeled a Holocaust denier and received very ugly, intimidating emails. Irony much?
Posted 16 years ago # -
They call it Patsystan... cute, although they think it means that the ISI connection is, of course, a fabrication of the Zionist propaganda (along with Sibel Edmonds and Jon Gold).
It very much seems to be the hate Jon Gold site. Certainly very little factual discussion of demolition hypotheses, just whining about those who are (falsely) perceived to exclude and persecute its acolytes (in this case I think it's safe to say the expression is part religious).
I recommend that we not over-focus on them, as this site can quickly descend into a mirror image. The strategy should be to develop a body of specific, sourced statements we can all agree on, and most of all to avoid personalized rhetoric and insults.
It's interesting that these things turn into clubs. How to avoid? I think web design is a factor! The use of cute nicknames, smileys and other non-format code, long and esoteric signatures and I think especially avatar images (usually oversize) help to create this insular, barroom atmosphere that encourage echo chamber effects and distraction into personalized bullshit, also turning off newcomers. All the abbreviations and terms don't help, as these are rarely defined in any given thread. I don't imagine they see how their forum and discussion look like to a newcomer (and I'm not talking about myself as a newcomer). It's just off on another planet (I don't mean the logic per se but the self-indulgent, subcultural style) and mostly in an incomprehensible language.
Please don't overdevelop Truthmove and don't ever introduce avatar images! (Hm, did I just join the iconoclasts?)
ON EDIT: I see while I was writing casseia has posted a defense on other points regarding wtcdemolition.com Welcome & peace.
Posted 16 years ago # -
I'm Zionist propaganda? No way!
Posted 16 years ago # -
And you are correct not to focus on them. I do because they focus on me, and I seem to remember something about keeping your enemies closer, however, it's nothing but a waste of time.
Posted 16 years ago # -
Watching americans being attacked for seeking accountability is a very depressing thing, and i sometimes wonder if i have thrown my life away in this pursuit. i have been watching Ken Burns' documentary on WW2 "The War" these last several days, and how Japanese american citizens were arrested during a time of war for no crime other than their ethnicity, and i wonder if i have sacrificed my reputation and life and potential liberty for a cause in defense of truth and accountability which invariably will only be viewed as 'conspiracy theories' and 'betrayal' by those who seek to divide us. i sometimes wonder if i have fallen into a trap set by those who seek to label us and categorize us during a time of war. i wonder if, as Jon has announced his intentions to 'take a break,' if any of us can really walk away from this.
i wonder, watching Ken Burns' documentary, how much worse all of this can get. mankind is no stranger to catastrophe. and as we are reminded on a nearly daily basis that another 9/11 could happen - and probably WILL happen - i wonder just how dark a place america is capable of becoming. and while today we reflect on the personal attacks Jon is enduring, i wonder if i have thrown away my life and face an uncertain future where the possibility of martial law and internment - or worse - is a very real possibility in the wake of another terrorist attack. and i wonder how many among us in the movement are truly working for accountability - as opposed to steering us off a cliff.
what ostensibly started as a call for accountability - and the truth - whether it was criminal negligence - intentional negligence - complicity - or an outright false flag - has ended up becoming a movement which drives us further and further towards discrediting ourselves by forwarding claims and science and facts that are questionable at best - and outright lies at its worst.
one is forced to wonder how something as tragic as 9/11 could happen without american citizens demanding accountability. but i now feel betrayed by this movement in that i have now been lumped in with those who seek to equate us with traitors to this nation. at my MOST cynical i sometimes wonder if i have fallen for evidence planted for the very purpose of luring in people for 'registering' in some national 'loyalty database.'
how have things gone so wrong?
Posted 16 years ago # -
"how have things gone so wrong?"
1) Nico Haupt
2) WingTV
3) Jim Fetzer
4) Judy Wood
5) Rick Siegel
6) Morgan Reynolds
7) Webster Tarpley
8) Eric Hufschmid
9) Daryl Bradford Smith
10) Holocaust Deniers
11) Zionist Brigade
12) Loose Change (What I believe to be good intentioned)
13) Painful Deceptions
14) In Plane Site
15) Fox News
16) CNN
17) MSNBC
18) ABCNews
19) CBSNews
20) The amount of time we spend having to "deal" with 1 - 9
21) The embracing and promotion of the more questionable theories (CD, Missile Hitting The Pentagon, Flight 93 Shot Down, etc...) while forgetting the foundation for why we're here.
22) The embracing and promotion of the more questionable theories as fact.
23) Forgetting the families and the first responders
Posted 16 years ago # -
This fixation upon the supposed "bad apples" of the movement doesn't help us. Analyze, identify, evaluate, and then let it go. This obsession is getting on the Puritanical side. As if there is this kind of shock and awe in regards to these people, as if we found a witch. We worry that these "bad apples" will ruin the respectability of the 9/11 Truth movement, and in doing so, we ruin our respectability. And in doing so, our lives will be ruined. Respect usually is earned by being one who is not easily distracted, easily torn down, while still being openly aware of the world around them, being able to listen. Our obsession with the negative forces in the movement will throw us into category of "neurotic result of 9/11", where we can finally belong with the larger social sphere whose common denominator is total, all-out cynicism.
Posted 16 years ago # -
i wonder if i have thrown away my life and face an uncertain future where the possibility of martial law and internment - or worse - is a very real possibility in the wake of another terrorist attack. and i wonder how many among us in the movement are truly working for accountability - as opposed to steering us off a cliff.
JohnA, I feel your frustration, and that frustration has had quite an impact on me for the last couple of months when I stated to notice that this movement wasn't and still isn't going in the right direction.
Hey, I have been in this for three years now. I have always been optimistic about our chances of Great Worldwide Awakening through 911 truth revelation. Most recently, through all of the pessimistic thoughts I have had the past couple of months, I experienced an awakening myself. Through this personal awakening, I realized that 1. 9/11 Truth Revelation on a worldwide scale IS entirely possible. 2. That this movement IS capable of restructuring, reorganizing itself, gaining utmost credibility. 3. That we (9/11 Truthers) have been given one of the BIGGEST opportunities in human history to change the fate of humanity through 9/11 Truth Revelation. The potential of our mission and vision is undeniable immeasurable! 4. Those who know the truth and have a genuine desire to see it revealed have an obligation to see it through.
That we have one of the greatest opportunities in history to shape the future of humanity shouldn't be expected to be handed to us overnight. Many great leaders, visionaries, movements, and heroes throughout human history have faced the same level of opposition and hurdles to their success. What we face is no different. In fact, the potential and impact of our success tells me right there that we will face enormous challenges. This should be expected. It is now our time to fulfill our obligation.
This movement is totally capable of making an U-turn from it's current path to neutralization. The problems of this movement CAN be overcome. I will say that we haven't done nearly enough yet to see that that will take place.
Over the past 9 months, I have been working on a project/resolution (for the movement) that I believe will put us on the path to success. I have heard MANY other impressive ideas for this movement too that I would love to see come to fruition. I would love to see this movement come together at OUR first "9/11 Truth Movement National Convention," put all of our strongest and boldest ideas and strategies together and prepare for real battle with the perps of 9/11. It is quite far reaching and comprehensive, but there is no doubt in my mind that we can be the most impressive and unprecedented movement ever seen. In fact, unprecedented is the key to our success! That's one of the reasons that we haven't seen success yet. I think (in my opinion) we have gotten so caught up on how to do things the old way, and quite honestly, those ways just won't work in this new age of deception. We've got to put out our boldest and most strategic/comprehensive vision and ACT on it! We've got to LEAD by example! It may not be possible to get everyone to jump on board at first. They will after they see that our strategy is working. Every time we say or believe that something won't work because it seems too "far-reaching" or complicated or impossible, we do nothing more than limit ourselves. We have already set the stage for failure. I personally cannot sit here and watch the opportunity of generations slip by right in my face. I just won't. No matter how bad things get, I will always try my best to offer ideas and strategies for this movement and devote a good portion of my life to 911 truth.
This unprecedented New Age of Deception calls for an unprecedented new 21st Century International Movement For Truth. We have the brains to build it. The potential is here, and the time is now.
Posted 16 years ago # -
I slide back and forth between cynicism and optimism. Usually my cynical side tells me that 9/11 truth is already a tainted and marginalized issue that isn't worth my time. That we're only alienating ourselves by associating with it because it's been so effectively defined by opponents, ideologues, and lazy followers.
But this is not necessarily true. My average acquaintance has never heard of hologram theories or Alex Jones or WAC, but they are at least open to concept of complicity. I think we sometimes operate with a sort of inferiority/alienation complex that giveback has mentioned. Perhaps the close-knit beginnings of the movement and the initial media blackout have made the recent "surge in popularity" and coverage seem like insurmountable definitions of what it is.
This doesn't have to be so. We still have huge opportunities for organization and expansion, and groups like Alex Jones and WAC are very marginal in their own way.
On another note, I also worry that 9/11 truth is too specific of an issue to resonate with the general public and that many of us are involved because we are actually used to or comfortable with alienation. I wonder if the 9/11 issue will ever gain that much steam or if we must shift and broaden or focus to include issues such as the environment and the more general injustices of this socioeconomic system. How about poor people's rights, health care, campaign finance reform, these are issues which could command a huge groundswell of support.
9/11 truth seems very small to me next to environmental devastation. 200 species a day are going extinct because of human folly. If 9/11 truth is waking people up to "Ron Paul 2008" instead of that, then I'm not sure it's such a worthwhile cause.
Here is my second post to 911blogger, which was of course attacked mercilessly:
9/11 Truth + Environmental Awareness = Revolution
Posted 16 years ago # -
I slide back and forth between cynicism and optimism. Usually my cynical side tells me that 9/11 truth is already a tainted and marginalized issue that isn't worth my time. That we're only alienating ourselves by associating with it because it's been so effectively defined by opponents, ideologues, and lazy followers.
There are times that I feel this way myself. Time will tell if these observations are correct. However, even though we might be in the process of neutralization, we can turn that around, if we (those who have the discipline and critical thinking skills) act now! My optimistic side (as I have sated in the above post) outweighs the cynical side most of the time.
If 9/11 truth is waking people up to "Ron Paul 2008" instead of that, then I'm not sure it's such a worthwhile cause.
I'm not sure if this is the case. I believe that this is attributed (deliberately or not) people using 9/11 Truth their own political or personal ambitions - i.e A. Jones. The loudest and sometimes most obnoxious voices in the movement are able to steer and even fool a large group of followers (in the movement). If this movement was actually (lead) by responsible, disciplined, and devoted (to 911 Truth) individuals, Ron Paul wouldn't even be an issue. Who will these people look to when RP loses in the primaries next year? This is why I say that we have to take our movement back! We have a lot of potential that's being unused.
9/11 truth seems very small to me next to environmental devastation. 200 species a day are going extinct because of human folly.
Yes, Truthmod, I couldn't agree more, except the fact that I don't think 911 truth is a 'small' issue. There are plenty of issues, problems, and revelations that need the utmost attention of the world; however, the effect of awakening using 9/11 Truth (properly and by a disciplined and responsible movement) is obviously much more jolting than trying to convince people of the other issues. What I mean is, for instance, if you walk up to your avg. American and try to convince them that 'our environment is being devastated, we need to help the poor, so on and so forth, in my opinion, people have turned cynical about these things long ago, (maybe less so the environment) and focusing on these other issues while leaving out 9/11 doesn't get to the crux of the lion which is the worldwide network of corruption and deceit. Nothing other than 9/11 truth (in my opinion) can have such a worldwide rippling effect of revealing that lion. I believe that if we have an (effective) movement that is able to reveal 9/11, we open up the door to revelation on the host of other even more important issues. A lot of those issues people will be much more receptive to learning about and even doing something about because we will have shown them that WE CAN make a difference by this point.
They used 9/11 to change the world, we will use their lie to change it again! With all that being said, if we cannot reconstruct an effective movement sometime in the future, we will have lost our greatest opportunity and at that point we might have to look at other strategies, other options. That would be quite an unfortunate day.
Posted 16 years ago #
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