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New Coca-Cola "Truther" site (44 posts)

1. NicholasLevis
   Member

   http://www.truther.org/

   • Promotion and self-adoption of the trivializing "truther" term invented to mock 9/11 skeptics.
   • Loose Change FC, probably still unseen.
   • Ron Paul '84 (I'm changing the year to something more appropriate, as Ron Paul is Reagan Redux).
   • Nice tits for truth (sorry, but this has to be pointed out as fitting the profile of self-imposed trivialization through cool poses).
   • Marvin Bush mythology, see my comment here: http://911blogger.com/node/12489#comment-168672
   • LC features better soundtrack than the monster trucks advert.

   Much of it appears not so bad - I have little stomach for it.

   Posted 16 years ago #
2. chrisc
   Member

   What struck me as most strange (though I could easily nit pick...) is the, super trooper, sorry, super troofer, oops no the super truther application form:

   A super truther is an individual committed to disseminating truth to their family and peers, their friends and strangers. We want individuals dedicated to exposing the lies and terrorist acts created and supported by the United States government. If you're a leader, outspoken or simply want to enact positive, constructive change for our society, please, sign up today!

   As an enrolled and approved super truther you'll have greater input and responsibilites than a normal truther would.

   http://www.truther.org/action/superTruthers.html

   Posted 16 years ago #
3. NicholasLevis
   Member

   Golly, can I really get some prettygirl, oops, um, more input and responsibility than a NORMAL Truther?! (Her pics are really charming by the way, but the boy-mannequin needs to acquire some kind of expression. Or is that un-manly? Can we stick a cig on him, at least? Never mind, this is CA.)

   Hell, yeah! I don't want to be no NORMAL Truther!

   T-shirts are $20 - but hey a buck goes to FealGood. (Can you think of an alternative wherein FealGood gets $20, truther.org gets zero, and you don't have to pose like a friggin' style zombie in the t-shirt? I can!)

   Now we get to see how many in the ostensible 9/11 skeptics' ranks recognize the launch of a clothing line and prospective San Diego strip boutique. (Oi, we could have been selling friggin' t-shirts from Nov. 2001 forward. Another profit center foregone.)

   Forgot: the obligatory A.Jones endorsement. This page is perfect!

   Site contact: a form.

   WHOIS: Registered via Australian proxy with e-mail contact davidchasetaylor at yahoo.com.

   Here's who that might be: http://9-11.meetup.com/279/members/4742088/

   Posted 16 years ago #
4. truthmod
   Administrator

   New Rave Flyers!

   http://www.truther.org/files/truther-911DummiesRav...

   Interesting choice of evidence.

   Posted 16 years ago #
5. NicholasLevis
   Member

   And when the debunkers come out with this bullshit accusation that everyone's in it for the book and t-shirt money - the widows, you, me - there will be that much more grain of truth in it. Not for you, me or the widows, but...

   Posted 16 years ago #
6. Victronix
   Member

   I had a run-in with these folks on blogger because they had taken a mirror of STJ to use until they got their own site up and running without mentioning it to us. Once we knew what it was about I said fine. It seems like there are good intentions but I also agree with a lot of the comments here. Importantly, Abby made numerous negative posts about Kevin Ryan's debate with Shermer the other day that didn't help anything and distorted the situation -- her opinon was not shared by most others I know, but it was fairly intense in her posts. She later apologized for being negative but then continued to agree with other negative comments. My guess is that they are learning. I don't agree with the level of commercialization.

   The San Diego group did an excellent video for the 11th day actions . . . I'm not sure what the real make-up is of it all down there, but it seems to be a full spectrum type of area.

   SD is important because the Navy and others are there.

   Posted 16 years ago #
7. NicholasLevis
   Member

   Cross post from the blogger one, casseia there responding to me here and saying "cool is the way to move the memes" (memes is the cool way to say idea, by the way):

   Cool

   ...is also a great way to create ossified cliques with mindless stances on either side.

   Cool always generates several flavors of anti-cool and cooler-than-thou.

   Cool is high school.

   Cool is something that, when all resources are mobilized, the corporate media can master. If they get outmaneuvered by cool from below, they pull out a fat checkbook and buy it.

   Cool is a potential that's been pretty much tapped at this point on behalf of 9/11 truth. I'll take a high-level whistleblower or the beans spilled by a foreign intel agency as more effective.

   (And if I didn't post more criticism at blogger it's because, well, even I know the meaning of enough, the kids mean well, how much curmudgeon should I play, etc. etc.)

   ---

   "Truth is not measured in mass appeal." summeroftruth.org

   Posted 16 years ago #
8. jan
   Member

   Excellent points made, Nick and Vic.

   From a marketing perspective, the "truther" website design furthers an inaccurate stereotype of the 9/11 truth movement as an aggressive, anarchist type subculture. Somehow I doubt that Abby is representative of other young activists in her disrespect of founding leaders (heroes) of this movement. It seems generally recognized that the early days especially required real courage and incredible sacrifices.

   Agree with Nick that the commericialism is in poor taste and at the expense of all the 9/11 truth movement. Hovering over the Truther t-shirt area drops a surprise note to "buy a t-shirt to support the 9-11 truth movement"/. For those of us who are well aware of the significant financial sacrifices that many have made for 9/11 truth, the furthering of inaccurate stereotypes is truly difficult to witness.

   Posted 16 years ago #
9. casseia
   Member

   I said, "Cool is a big part of what moves memes." You're lucky I'm not John Doraemi, or I'd be rippin' you a new one for quoting me wrong AND using quotation marks at the same time. I very deliberately did not say that it was "the" way (and memes are a distinct concept from mere ideas, but you're just being coy.)

   The plus side to the tee-shirts is that they are undoubtedly the kind of thing that sparks conversation, especially amongst the kids. And really, this site isn't going to make anyone over 35 think 9/11 truth is aggressive or anarchistic. I say that as a curmudgeonly forty year old.

   Posted 16 years ago #
10. giveback
    

    This truther.org offers us the "entertainment" approach.

    Posted 16 years ago #
11. chrisc
    Member

    Jan said:

    the "truther" website design furthers an inaccurate stereotype of the 9/11 truth movement as an aggressive, anarchist type subculture

    I don't agree, it was the commercialism that first struck me about that site.

    A more accurate comparison might be between a PETA web site and a anarchist animal-rights site -- the troofer site being more akin to a PETA site...

    Posted 16 years ago #
12. truthmod
    Administrator

    I guess these people are the Truth Alliance, not us.

    http://www.truthalliance.net/

    Ron Paul 2008

    Posted 16 years ago #
13. jan
    Member

    Golly, is anyone else nervous about the consistent mingling of identities at this site? The byline of the truther site (at the tip top of your window) states:

    • "the truth shall set us free" (a quote from David Kubiak's 911truth.org signage of 2004).

    • The link to STJ911.org incorrectly links to the choice page of http://st911.org/.

    • The identlty of the truth alliance could be confused as this website's organization.

    A comment I posted on blogger. On a related note, I am in process of doing a website evaluation of truther.org and have concerns about the (clearly anarchist) design of that site and the potential repurcusssions of the 'truther' identity association. Upon a cursorary marketing review, I recommend official distance from the problematic identity terminology of 'truther'. For the moment, suffice to say that I unequivocally reject association with the term 'truther' identity ever being applied to myself or associates. Jan Hoyer http://digitalstyledesigns.com/index.htm

    Posted 16 years ago #
14. NicholasLevis
    Member

    casseia, fine, you didn't say "the" way. (You often say "the," so I can put that in quotes.)

    memes is not much of an idea at all: transposition of reductive gene determinism to concepts, picked up by the stylish as a means of lending significance.

    & anarchs over/under 35 looking at truther.org are only going to see a) apparel flogged and b) more Paul/Jones dittoism.

    & if Gold coined "truther" then finally, he has a crime he must answer for.

    Posted 16 years ago #
15. imgstacke
    Member

    I think the site looks great and will appeal to the 20-ish age group. If you have suggestions on making corrections to links or information put forward as fact, your MORE likely to get it changed if you acknowledge the site for what it is, a bunch of dedicated people doing something to get more exposure and garner activism.

    Work with them, not against them... If this is the look that pushs 9/11 truth further into that demographic GREAT, they are of that demographic and I think they know better than most of you what is effective.

    Posted 16 years ago #
16. NicholasLevis
    Member

    I offered a correction on 911b (Marvin Bush not in charge of WTC security) and was blasted for being such a downer on the party & a desktop critic hitting people who are "doing something."

    Effective is a dubious term when one does not ask, to what end? Can we agree that this site sells Ron Paul, Alex Jones, t-shirts and membership in a cool club, since that's what is on the front page? If you support sales of these particular commodities, then fine: effective is good.

    Posted 16 years ago #
17. imgstacke
    Member

    like i said - if you don't acknowledge the effort for what it is - your criticism is going to be met with resistance. Its very simple. And to what ends, looks like it is to get people to stop being apathetic to all of this corruption.

    And what is the matter with people selling a T-shirt? I have problems with people selling information, but not shirts that make a statement. The argument is silly. Perhaps you just don't like their choice of T-shirts, because you don't like the names associated with them. Who cares...

    People pull money out of their pocket to get a professionally designed website made and you guys are nitpicking like hens. Seriously.

    Posted 16 years ago #
18. Victronix
    Member

    I think if it didn't have Ron Paul I'd like it better. I wouldn't like a 9/11 site jamming Kucinich in my face either on every page.

    The link to STJ911.org incorrectly links to the choice page of http://st911.org/.

    I'll email them. I looked at it the other day and I think it was the correct link before, but maybe I missed it.

    Posted 16 years ago #
19. NicholasLevis
    Member

    imgstacke: the point here is that the site as presently constituted appears to exist to sell a t-shirt first, any other function second.

    PS - I'm getting off this thread now because I've said enough - compare it to the fact that the government and pro-regime shills are making multiple preps to associate 9/11 truth sites with terrorism, it's kind of trivial, isn't it? Almost reason to regret starting this thread.

    Posted 16 years ago #
20. truthmover
    Administrator

    One point only: They are selling shirts and asking for donations and yet do not indicate who they are or how the money will be spent. That 5% of shirt sales go to the Feal Good Foundation is not quite reassuring to me in this matter as they don't appear to address the issue to any significant degree on the site. Am I missing something?

    Posted 16 years ago #
21. giveback
    

    imgstacke:

    Do you consider your use of castigation to us("The argument is silly" & "...and you guys are nitpicking like hens. Seriously") in any way consistent with your advice for us (...if you don't acknowledge the effort for what it is - your criticism is going to be met with resistance." & "Work with them, not against them...")

    This is the language and logic of partisanship, and it functions as an attempted wedge device against the effort of critical thinking, especially critical thinking which does not conclude with benefits for the home team. Furthermore, partisanship has more use for the techniques of shame than the use of critical thinking. This in itself is nothing to be ashamed about, but it's a concern for many in this 9/11 Truth movement, as it this shame-based, distraction oriented, partisan mindset that gave the official story it's power in the first place, and continues to do so.

    Posted 16 years ago #
22. jan
    Member

    The public identity and vision of the 9-11 truth movement is not a trivial matter. As the founding graphic designer of the national 9-11 truth movement, I will assure you that my concern is rooted in the bigger picture of public relations.

    There is a large segment of "visually oriented" busy Americans who form their conclusions based on their quick perception from surfing the look and feel of a website. No matter the fine text at truther.org that states "The truth movement is not a fringe element" (a curious inclusion), elements of the site design work together to give a different impression to website surfers. (visual power is often a blind spot to many intellects who love the written word).

    In the near future, after general public perception has been successfully swayed to relegate the 9-11 truth movement to same counterculture stature as anarchists, this will be the time when we are all in REAL trouble. Due to general "public perception" that anarchists are potentially violent, authorities have been able to target anarchists for very aggressive treatment and investigation. (Recall Geraldo Rivero's recent public reference to 9-11 protesters as "a group of anarchists!")

    The mixing of credible identities will also be associated with truther.org's strategic marketing decision to use Sex (via provocative models) to sell its own truther.org t-shirts. Details will be addressed in the truther.org website analysis to be published soon.

    Posted 16 years ago #
23. casseia
    Member

    Hi Jan,

    I thought I'd respond over here where it's a little less "noisy." Of course you are correct that visual elements carry information as well as text -- I just ain't seeing the "anarchism" in the visual elements. I'm eager to see your completed analysis of their site if you share it.

    The issue of using sex to sell t-shirts (they say to pay for website related costs) is particularly interesting in this case. "Abby" is clearly someone spearheading this effort -- she is a young, very attractive woman, as are some of her San Diego cohorts. Whenever they've posted images of their truthing actions at 911blogger, the comments sections tends to get wet from all the drool that accompanies the response to their appearance. So for THEM to use imagery of themselves to sell t-shirts is not the same as the use of sex in marketing in other contexts and is, in fact, a fascinating issue from my radical feminist perspective.

    Sara/ casseia

    Posted 16 years ago #
24. giveback
    

    The t-shirt images on the website are noticeably similar, in aesthetics and ethics, to the advertising images of American Apparel.

    Posted 16 years ago #
25. casseia
    Member

    Yes they are -- but what aesthetic do you think people that age are steeped in? (And I believe they're actually using AA t-shirts btw.) More to the point, and I'm going to ask Abby, are any of the people in the photographs not truthers (ie any professional models)? Ethically, as I allude to above, there is a very substantial difference between using images of YOURSELF that are perceived by others as sexy and using images of OTHERS that YOU perceive as sexy, for marketing purposes and otherwise.

    I looked at their slideshow on the site again this morning and it's really pretty tame, incidentally.

    Posted 16 years ago #

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