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Alex Jones, Ron Paul and the libertarian anti-environmentalists (22 posts)

  1. truthmod
    Administrator

    Not one piece of evidence in this tacky ad hominem hit piece on Al Gore. These people aren't part of the truth movement; they're manipulators and egotists. This is the underbelly of the AJ/RP machine. They use scraps of truth to manipulate people into an extreme, deluded, and actually quite institutional world view.

    Nimmo cites the "Environmentalism is Fascism" site. Hmmm sounds like David Horowitz and the neocons decrying "Islamofascism." In this day and age, fascists love to call their enemies fascists.

    http://www.truthnews.us/?p=1196

    Al Gore’s Real Colors

    Kurt Nimmo TruthNews December 10, 2007

    In fact, the elite long ago “took over the show,” and their “green compassion” is little more than Malthusianism recast. The Environmentalism is Fascism (http://www.ecofascism.com/article12.html) website explains....


    Al Gore’s snake oil caravan is but the leading PR edge of the emerging control agenda funded by the Rockefeller Foundation, the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation, the Turner Foundation, the Pew Charitable Trusts, the Mott Foundation, the Hewlett Foundation, the Heinz Family Philanthropies — lorded over by Teresa Heinz Kerry, the wife of that other Skull and Bones presidential candidate — the Merck Family Foundation, and a handful of other dynasties who think you’re wrecking the planet, that is to say their planet.


    Instead, global warming is yet another control mechanism and a damn fine one because you can’t complain since the fate of the entire planet is at risk. Osama and his dour Muslim cave-dwellers pale by way of comparison.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  2. noitv
    Member

    Alex Jones isn't perfect, but he's undoubtedly the person who's had the biggest influence in getting the truth out.. He's woken up most of the people in the truth movement, whether they agree with everything he says or his style of communication or not.. To suggest that he is "not a part of the truth movement" is certainly not correct.. Alex's asset is communicating with conservatives, who are notoriously the most difficult demographic to reach with information relating to changing one's political opinion.

    Also, there are a lot of issues with the global warming debate which don't add up.. the earth is warming but there are questions about the science used to explain the reasons why.. Most likely the true answer is halfway between what the greenhouse gas activists and non-greenhouse gasses activists believe..

    I need to verify the exact accuracy of the following link, but it illustrates the fact that the earth has been warming and cooling on a frequent basis throughout history, and this warming and cooling is dependent on environmental factors such as volcanoes, ect.. Here is the link:

    http://longrangeweather.com/images/GTEMPS.gif

    Anyway, whatever the case, the global warming debate should take a backseat to the much more important issues at hand, namely rampant corruption in politics which Al Gore is and has been a part of.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  3. truthmod
    Administrator

    [BTW, I know this person in real life]

    Please, don't insult us. It really sounds like Alex Jones is your hero. Watch out for hero worship, it's usually a means of manipulation, and it's something that AJ really fosters. By acting the strong man, AJ attracts those who feel alienated and belittled; he let's you in on a little of his facade of manliness and power.

    Let me ask you a few questions: When did you start to consider that global warming might be a "hoax?" Was it perhaps an Alex Jones story or broadcast or something from a related source? Do you understand the basic science behind GW? Have you ever heard of CO2? Do you think that concern for the environment is just a elitist scare coordinated to control or reduce the population? What about MASS EXTINCTION? IS THAT ENGINEERED? IS THAT SCARE TACTICS? Are chemtrails and astrology more real to you than 50% OF ALL SPECIES BEING EXTINCT BY THE END OF THE CENTURY.

    http://www.well.com/user/davidu/extinction.html

    Jesus Christ, this is getting old. Don't you guys have any better evidence than some pathetic volcanic eruption/temperature graph that doesn't even mention CO2? No, actually you don't, because I've heard them all and seem them all debunked.

    “The Great Global Warming Swindle” is itself a Fraud and a Swindle http://www.durangobill.com/Swindle_Swindle.html

    http://inthegreen.typepad.com/blog/2007/03/deconst...

    Posted 16 years ago #
  4. Alex Jones isn't perfect, but he's undoubtedly the person who's had the biggest influence in getting the truth out..

    Aha ok.

    Also, there are a lot of issues with the global warming debate which don't add up.. the earth is warming but there are questions about the science used to explain the reasons why..

    So, I guess we should just keep polluting the earth and not worry about it because the "science doesn't add up?"

    Even if humans weren't causing G.W. WE STILL need to make drastic changes because we are living UNSUSTAINABLY. Resource depletion would be our fate if not G.W.

    I mean just what is fraudulent about saving the planet and changing our unsustainable ways? I just don't get it.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  5. noitv
    Member

    I'm pretty critical of Alex Jones, like I started my post with, "Alex Jones isn't perfect.." But it is true that he's had a tremendous influence on the truth movement.. Even if you feel that he hasn't influenced you, he's influenced the people who have influenced you. He's been making documentaries and has had a radio show for the past ten years, and he's only 34 years old. I feel my statements about him were accurate, but for you to claim he "isn't part of the truth movement" is not accurate in any way.

    I'm not sure what I think about global warming.. I didn't say that I think it's a "hoax," obviously the earth is warming up. The question is how often has it warmed up and cooled down over the recent past history, and why? And anyway, the point I was getting at is the fact that I think that the corruption of the politicians is the more important issue here. We'll all be extinct long before the end of the century is that issue isn't cleared up.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  6. truthmod
    Administrator

    Please note:

    I'm not just belaboring this point. It's a big deal whether certain leaders (with large followings) actually believe and espouse the idea that the environmental movement is an elite scam and that we're (humans) actually not doing significant damage. This point of view would, (in my opinion, of course) exclude a person from being part of an honest truth movement.

    noitv, do you see how much you're talking about opinions and feelings in your last post? We're trying to deal in facts here. Try reading up on those links I posted.

    Even if you feel that he hasn't influenced you, he's influenced the people who have influenced you.

    How do you know this? He's influenced Paul Thompson? Huh? Are we somehow supposed to respect whatever baseless crap he spews because he's supposedly had this important "influence?" Jesus Christ!

    And anyway, the point I was getting at is the fact that I think that the corruption of the politicians is the more important issue here. We'll all be extinct long before the end of the century is that issue isn't cleared up.

    Is that your response to my FACT about MASS EXTINCTION. That doesn't cut it. That's bullshit.

    You and your man Alex Jones need to fucking deal with reality!

    Here are my sources:

    http://www.speciesalliance.org/facts.php

    E.O. Wilson, The Future of Life, p. 102

    http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/05/go...

    http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/04/30/862...

    Where are yours?

    Shit.

    If enough species are extinguished, will ecosystems collapse and will the extinction of most other species follow soon afterwards? The only answer anyone can give is: Possibly. By the time we find out, however, it might be too late. One planet, one experiment. E. O. Wilson

    Posted 16 years ago #
  7. The more I observe the evolution of the Alex Jones phenomenon, the more I think he is not advancing the 9/11 truth movement as much as capitalizing on it. I'm not talking about Jones making money. That's fine, no complaints. My concern is he is seeking out the weaknesses of those in the movement, and drilling that home. Weaknesses such as impatience, victimization, insecurity, fear, envy, derision, and the like. It sounds as if he has an endgame, and the truth movement is a convenient audience pool. Fear of control by the elite supplants the gravity and credibility of all other issues, especially the environment.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  8. noitv
    Member

    Alex Jones has been working very hard every day for the past decade at least.. He's very confrontational and opinionated but thats who he is.. I don't think he necessarily wants mainstream attention and in my opinion I think he throws a little clunker in there now and then to regulate that.. I think he's tired of being one of the very few major voices in the movement, it's up to others to learn from his information and pass it on appropriately. Also I think he cares about the environment, recently I've started hearing ads for a hemp activist website on his show.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  9. truthmod
    Administrator

    http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N10178654...

    Greenland ice sheet melting at record rate

    Greenland is about one-fourth the size of the United States and about 80 percent of it is covered by the ice sheet. One-twentieth of the world's ice is in Greenland; if it all melted it would be equivalent to a 21-foot (6.4 metre) global sea level rise, the scientists said.

    "I don't trust no darn scientists! I trust ExxonMobil and Alex Jones."

    In recent years, melting has started earlier in the year than normal. Air temperatures on the ice sheet have risen by about 7 degrees F (3.9 degrees C) since 1991, mostly because of the build-up of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the scientists said in research presented at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  10. PresidentFord
    Member

    Alex Jones doesn't care about you. And, if you think he does, you should meet him and shake his hand. It takes about a minute to figure him out in person.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  11. NicholasLevis
    Member

    Ford: Yes, in person he displays a cartoonish "I'm a STAR - you are dirt" arrogance that turns many worshippers into haters of his guts. But enough star-fuckers and glom-artists line up to schedule his next rant.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  12. Victronix
    Member

    My Ron Paul letter below, edited slightly so a little less interesting, but kept the gist.

    I was disappointed to see Alternet promoting him in an article today, and he will be on PBSs NOW on Friday -- the preview video was completely uncritical and only cared about how popular he's become 'overnight' and how amazing it is that so many people change their entire lives overnight to support him. They feature a guy who supposedly had never voted before, moved from his home in FL to NH to do the "5th of Nov" fundraiser by himself, and whoops, gee whiz, he raised over $4m! What do you know? Just another Ron Paul "miracle" it seems.

    The Ron Paul puzzle

    Editor - You got it right on Ron Paul ("Ron who?" Nov. 28) when you said that Paul is "able to represent whatever voters see in him."

    The many Paul contradictions require that supporters rationalize how, for example, they like that he adheres to the Constitution, yet he calls for an amendment to put prayer in the schools. Paul's plans to defund or eliminate the United Nations fly in the face of his anti-war position, since the United Nations is a primary peacekeeper and is the world's only means to prosecute war criminals. In many ways, he is a Bush dream candidate.

    Almost all Paul supporters I talk to are unpleasantly surprised when they put the whole puzzle together on his positions.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/...

    Posted 16 years ago #
  13. JohnA
    Member

    It is particularly Orwellian to claim that the global warming “hoax” is a product of an elitist conspiracy - when it is clear that the big business interests of the oil industry (in particular) and industrialists (in general) are in direct opposition to the environmentalist lobby.

    Lets see – the same people responsible for pumping tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere are also responsible for propagating a hoax that demonizes their own industries? hmmm....

    Lets see – the same people who have demonized and denegrated environmentalists as “environmental wackos” and “terrorists” and “tree huggers” are now propagating a hoax to support not-for-profit environmental organizations and their claims?

    Is there a private newsletter alerting the ‘rich’ to support this hoax? Just how exactly is this hoax being engineered?

    Lets see – the same people who lobbied to exclude the United States from the Kyoto treaty are now creating a hoax that is winning the popular support of Hollywood and liberals to propel the USA TOWARDS CO2 regulations? Hmmmmm……..

    Lets see – the evil knights templar Masonic order of the illuminati Rothschild Rockefeller trilateral commission puppet masters of the Ruling Elite had a meeting – over bagels – and decided to create a global hoax, employing thousands of scientists and hundreds of paid drowning polar bears - creating fake independent observations and empirical scientific evidence from around the world – all aimed at demonizing the energy lobby and oil industry – because they would benefit from…….

    …this is where I get a little lost. Just how exactly would they benefit from this hoax?

    Oh yes – we would all become slaves to globalization. I’m not sure how exactly – but that’s Alex Jones says.

    I have a better conspiracy theory:

    The oil industry feels threatened by global warming, since regulating CO2 emissions would necessarily mean energy conservation and cutting back on their profits. Duh.

    So – the usual assortment of right-wing pundits and politicians are protecting their business interests (like they always do) by ridiculously claiming that global warming is a hoax. Sean Hannity. Bill O’Reilly. Rush Limbaugh. You know – the usual assholes – are all weighing in with their BRILLIANT observations.

    Throw in some Libertarians who believe that all traffic signals and stop signs should be removed from the streets of America - because regulating traffic violates our freedom under the Constitution – and abracadabra presto chango – global warming is a hoax. Duh.

    as Freud once said - "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

    Posted 16 years ago #
  14. Remember the days when pollution was clearly understood as an issue, a man-made problem, and that us humans are expected to deal with the mess we put out.

    JohnA, great evaluation of the Orwellian side of the "global warming hoax". Yeah, they are speaking as if the oil companies are essentially a front for the environmental movement. As if the oil industry is here to produce an evil haze to strike fear into the hearts of billions, just so the oil industry can facilitate that dreaded endgame of regulation of itself. Nineteenth century Pennsylvania oil men, eat your hearts out.

    Libertarians seem to ignore the consideration that car culture itself has the power to control and limit a nation and world like very few other influences. It's about the good witch versus the bad witch.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  15. noitv
    Member

    Libertarians are just as concerned about the environment and finding alternative energy sources as anyone else, they just don't believe that co2 is a major contributor to the global warming.

    Anyway, please take a look at the new website "Get Up To Speed Fast" I've just put up, it summarizes important and often suppressed information about the world, society and politics ..

    http://getuptospeedfast.com/_images/foundationImag...

    Posted 16 years ago #
  16. noitv
    Member

    Whoops, here is the link again..

    http://www.getuptospeedfast.com/

    Posted 16 years ago #
  17. chrisc
    Member

    Two views on Ron Paul:

    An Open Letter to the Antiwar Left Ron Paul's Campaign Deserves Our Attention By JOSHUA FRANK http://www.counterpunch.org/frank12122007.html

    Why The Left Must Reject Ron Paul by Sherry Wolf http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/why-the-left...

    Posted 16 years ago #
  18. chrisc
    Member

    noitv said:

    http://www.getuptospeedfast.com/

    The Alex Jones and "chemtrails" stuff is a turn-off for me...

    Did you see the "chemtrail" thread on Truth Action? http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2473

    Posted 16 years ago #
  19. truthmod
    Administrator

    The supportive open letter ( http://www.counterpunch.org/frank12122007.html ) doesn't actually really say anything about Ron Paul besides the most surface observations ("he's anti-war" and "he's a libertarian"). Why is this? He's anti-war and he's getting a lot of hype, so let's not dig deeper (or dig at all) and look into what he really stands for?

    The opposition column delves much deeper:
    http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/why-the-left...

    Because at its core, the fetishism of individualism that underlies libertarianism leads to the denial of rights to the very people most radicals aim to champion: workers, immigrants, Blacks, women, gays, and any group that lacks the economic power to impose their individual rights on others.


    Paul also opposes equal pay for equal work, a minimum wage, and, naturally, trade unions. In 2007, he voted against restricting employers’ rights to interfere in union drives and against raising the federal minimum wage to $7.25. In 2001, he voted for zero-funding for OSHA’s Ergonomics Rules, instead of the $4.5 billion. At least he’s consistent.


    Right-wing libertarians, quite simply, oppose the state only insofar as it infringes the right of property owners.


    Supporters of Ron Paul who show up to protests should have their reactionary conclusions challenged, not embraced. Those of his supporters who are wholly ignorant of his broader politics beyond the war, should be educated about them. And those who advocate his noxious politics, should be attacked for their racism, immigrant bashing, and hostility to the values a genuine Left champions.

    Nuff said.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  20. noitv
    Member

    I'm assuming that most people posting here don't consider themselves to be a part of any particular political party or movement, such as "libertarianism, or Democrat" ect.. At least for me, I do not consider myself to be aligned with any particular group, I look at all them all and form my opinion based on looking at as broad of a spectrum of views as possible.. However, I do agree with many of the views of "Libertarianism", and I will explain why I feel that views held by those who identify themselves with that group are often unfairly distorted..

    --

    my views on Ron Paul

    To start off, I think Ron Paul may be a little too "purist" with his views, which could create a glass ceiling for him after he reaches a certain threshold of support.. In particular I think this is the case with having such views as being pro-life, anti-North American Union ( which is painted as "racist" due to lack of public understanding of the issue, as I will explain below ) and not supporting the idea of co2 being the major cause of global warming ( which I will explain my views of below also. ) Ron Paul's asset is his complete proven integrity and willingness to speak up about the most significant and genuine causes of corruption in politics, which no other candidate will dare touch.

    --

    my views on the North American Union

    The upcoming "North American Union" is a very big issue which is being hidden from the public through deception by the media.. The plan under the North American Union is to remove the borders between the United States, Canada and Mexico, turn them into one large country, and to remove the laws and constitution of the United States and replace it with a new constitution for the newly consolidated country which will be written by the proven corrupt neo-cons who are currently running affairs.

    This plan is currently being implemented by superhighways being built by international companies linking the three countries together, as well as allowing immigrants to come to the United States to live with undocumented status and no rights as citizens. The immigrants being undocumented creates problems for society and themselves, for example in some cases they are issued drivers licenses and drive without liability insurance, and in some areas the police are instructed to let them go without any written record or citation if they are pulled over for a traffic violation, ect.. The Immigration debate is sensitive because it opens itself to charges of racism wether racism is involved in the discussion or not.. This factor is exploited by the neo-cons who charge "racism" every time to subject of NOA is brought up, enabling them to go forward with their plans for corrupt consolidation and replacing of the Constitution.

    I am well informed on the issue of the NOA, and my views on how to fix the problem are very firm due to my familiarity with the issue.. People's opinions vary on how to deal with the issue of undocumented immigration, but I firmly believe that those who are currently in the country should be given a specific path to citizenship and the full rights associated with it. This will remove the many current social problems caused by and for millions of people living in the country without legal status. I also believe that the plan of the North American Union should be exposed and the borders sealed up once the current individuals in the country are given legal status, and after a certain date measures blocking illegal immigration should be enforced.

    I find that the topic of the North American Union is one of the least understood issues and also the one with the most profound implications. I will soon be creating an extremely comprehensive and detailed summary article about the subject on the new website GetUpToSpeedFast.com.

    --

    my views on the issue of global warming

    About the issue of Global Warming, I have not had a chance to fully immerse myself in the subject enough to have formed a firm opinion about it yet. The debate seems to be whether co2 is the major cause of the warming or not. I do know that people who don't feel that co2 is the major contributor feel that other environmental factors are the major cause and also feel that the earth cools and warms up on a regular basis due to these other factors, including a factor of the sun's intensity varying over long periods of time, and other factors such as volcanic activity, ect.. Some also feel that chemtrails are associated with this issue, and there is a sub-debate over if the chemtrails are intended to accelerate the warming or hinder it.

    Also, many people who don't believe that co2 is a major contributor to the warming feel that the topic of global warming is used as a distraction technique in used in order to waste the time and resources of activists, and give people a false sense of satisfaction that they are making a difference.

    In any event, I am going to immerse myself in the subject and carefully look at all views of the subject without bias and find what I will consider to be the most accurate view of the subject, based on comparing all of the information coming from all of the viewpoints. I will then create a summary article about the subject on the website News of Interest.TV..

    --

    I thank Truthmove for letting me view my views here, I feel that communication and debate of contrasting views are the path to the most accurate truths and enlightenment.. Peace everyone..

    Posted 16 years ago #
  21. truthmod
    Administrator

    noitv:

    While you've recently done a good job of sounding reasonable, most of your posts display very a unreasonable, emotional, and ignorant perspective.

    In my opinion, your recent posts here have been a waste of our time and yours. If you have such firm beliefs (some of which are not backed up by anything to close credible evidence) which are so clearly in line with your libertarian mentors, specifically Alex Jones, you will probably find yourself much more at home with forums and groups of that ilk.

    In any event, I am going to immerse myself in the subject and carefully look at all views of the subject without bias and find what I will consider to be the most accurate view of the subject, based on comparing all of the information coming from all of the viewpoints.

    So far, you haven't shown any ability whatsoever to do the above. I truly wish you luck in the journey of thinking for yourself and evaluating evidence, theories, and ideas without bias, but here at TruthMove, you're skating on thin ice, and additional wasting of our time will be seen as cause for blocking you from this forum. No hard feelings.

    Posted 16 years ago #
  22. noitv
    Member

    I disagree with your statement that my beliefs are not backed up by evidence.. If you take a moment to check out the website "Get Up To Speed Fast," you will find that it's format lends itself to summarizing much of the most credible evidence available on each of the given subjects.. also when new evidence becomes available it is added, and if I am made aware of evidence to the contrary of any of the points, the article is changed to reflect that. Here is the link again.. http://www.getuptospeedfast.com/

    I am working on improving the automation scripts of that website as well as the websites News of Interest.TV and Give Us Your Money.TV. Updates and new content will appear more frequently on these websites once the renovations are finished soon.

    Posted 16 years ago #

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