is willing to act like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGFw3hY20lM -Thanks to Arcterus for the find (too bad Deep Purple had to get tagged to that)
I think it's important to note that this was a featured video on the main page at YouTube.
TruthMove Forum » TruthMove Main Forum
9/11 Truth Burnout - My new blog (42 posts)
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Posted 14 years ago #
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I mean who needs Nico at this point. Actually, have you noticed that he is nowhere on the net anymore for the last several months.
To me, this is basically at the same level as what a lot of the disrupters were doing at Ground Zero to We Are Change. To someone on the outside, this appears as complete lunacy.
Posted 14 years ago # -
To someone on the inside, this still looks like complete lunacy.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I just saw the latest video and not only do I think that AJ is at about the same level of NicoHitler at this point, but there is a major element of division to this recent joker campaign. I recently was in a mostly black and latino neighbor hood in northeastern NJ and you tend to see a lot of Obama shirts and Obama signs on businesses. Around the train station where I was, there were a ton of those Obama joker signs posted. The people that did notice them did not seem thrilled. Maybe it is just me, but the joker sign looks very much like one of those old racist ads that had a characterization of an African American face. They look even worse in black and white, as the ones I saw today were.
Obama is not so great in many ways and there is a lot of false hope created with him, but I think we lose site on how important it is to so many people to have a president that is not an old white male. Even if he is just a figurehead, it still represents something very important to a lot of people. It is something on a very emotional level too. I agree that people have a lot of false hope in Obama, but if you are trying to turn people into critical thinkers of Obama's policies (and I do not endorse AJ's criticisms of Obama), then this is surely not the way.
I remember Michael Wolsey and Jim Hoffman discussing the CIT "theories" on Visibility 9/11 and one excellent point that Jim brought up was that assume what CIT was saying is actually true. Then would you use their approach to try to convey their case to people? No, you would have to be very sensitive and very conscious of your audience's sensibilities. You would also have to use a relatively gradual educational approach because most people cannot make a change in their worldview too quickly. This AJ tripe does the complete opposite.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I’m not really a fan of the whole joker thing, but Alex Jones has woken more people up by far than anyone else. I think you vastly underestimate his positive influence. He reaches important demographics, many millions have seen his films and listen to his radio broadcasts.
Also his information is extremely accurate— he doesn’t always get every little fact right but the important main points are nearly always spot-on factually correct.
He had some people on his show talking about the birther issue but so what? Some of the people he had on his show talking about it don’t agree with the birther issue such as Michael Rivero of What Really Happened, and others. He isn’t a proponent of the issue as much as just examining it. He doesn’t “support†it, he questions it.
Also it is claimed in this thread is that he “promotes a complete misunderstanding of US history and US class structure by being one of the leading proponents of anti-NWO, which is more of a religion than a political perspective.†Pshaw you are criticizing him for being anti-NWO?
Note he also posted a “Bush as Joker†poster on his website as well..
Posted 14 years ago # -
noitv, I certainly agree with you AJ reaches lots of people, but I think that educating the general public about US and world history and politics is a task that is more complex than merely "waking someone up." As if we can all agree on what "waking someone up" actually means.
He had some people on his show talking about the birther issue but so what? Some of the people he had on his show talking about it don’t agree with the birther issue such as Michael Rivero of What Really Happened, and others. He isn’t a proponent of the issue as much as just examining it. He doesn’t “support†it, he questions it.
Why give any legitimacy to the debate? One side is only blowing smoke and has no factual foundation to stand on. The only way to proceed with this issue is to call the birthers on what they are doing.
Also it is claimed in this thread is that he “promotes a complete misunderstanding of US history and US class structure by being one of the leading proponents of anti-NWO, which is more of a religion than a political perspective.†Pshaw you are criticizing him for being anti-NWO?
I am not sure of what you are saying, but could you define New World Order?
Note he also posted a “Bush as Joker†poster on his website as well..
Is anyone actually seeing this? I see it nowhere on AJ's main webpages, on the street campaign or on the T-shirts advertised on AJ's website.
Posted 14 years ago # -
A stopped watch is right twice a day.
There are probably more people alienated by this ultra right wing misinformation than inspired.
Being "woken up" via lies is probably not going to lead to positive social change. It's definitely not truth.
If the Alex Jones show is sincere and not a false flag operation they could hire fact checkers and issuing some apologies for all of the charlatans who have appeared on the show to promote crap claims.
Sorry that I'm not a fan of any show that promotes Holocaust deniers, blatantly false claims about 9/11, racist appeals, blowhard rhetoric, anti-environmental nonsense, denies Peak Oil and generally shows complete contempt for the most elementary requirements of journalism (check your facts before going on the air).
Posted 14 years ago # -
When I refer to “waking someone up,†I mean showing someone a truth which that person was not previously aware of. When I talk about “truth,†I am talking about a fact which is backed up by real evidence— which Alex is extremely good about.
Like I said, occasionally a minor facet of a point he makes might not be perfect, but the big picture ( and at least 95% of the most minor points ) are spot on. I’ve been listening to him most days for many years, I have an extremely good sense of his strengths and ( very few ) weakness. I routinely fact check his information, it is sound.
Once again you question the existence of a “New World Orderâ€! Aye.. It is a small group of unelected elite individuals who are taking control of the people and the resources of the planet through consolidation which is mostly brought about through deception. These people are eugenicists with plans for drastically “culling†the earth’s population. See the article “Long Term ‘Neocon Globalist’ agendas from Ronald Regan to Barack Obama†at this link, it will explain a lot:
http://www.newsofinterest.tv/neocon_globalist/inde...
Also see the article “Neocon Globalist agendas of the Barack Obama Administration.†at the following link. The information is very surprising to people who get most of their information from the major left wing news sources because most of those ( few ) sources are “foundation backed†and thus have globalist agendas.
http://www.newsofinterest.tv/neocon_globalist/neoc...
The point of those Joker posters is that it shouldn’t matter so much what race or ethnicity Obama is.. His administration is controlled by the same people who controlled the Bush Administration and he has been very dishonest throughout his Presidency.
Alex Jones is not a “Holocaust Denierâ€, does not promote false claims about 9/11, he is “race neutral†which can come off as sounding racist, he is spot on about environmental issues such as global warming ( I will start posting a detailed summary article about the global warming issue later this week. Note some of the talking points Alex mentions about global warming are not the best ones, but I have scrutinized and flushed out the arguments of the issue to a very detailed degree. After months of specific research I have done personally, I can say with 100% certainty that man made global warming is a myth which is propagated through intentionally fraudulent scientific reports which are then picked up and hyped by the media for forwarding dangerous globalist agendas. )
I haven’t looked too much into this “Peak Oilâ€, but if Alex claims it is a fraud, it is certainly a claim to take seriously and look into.
Also, any claim that Alex is not a “legitimate journalist†is ludicrous, as he is a journalist of genuine important historical significance.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Is anyone actually seeing this? I see it nowhere on AJ's main webpages, on the street campaign or on the T-shirts advertised on AJ's website.
Does it even matter? The problem isn't that he's hating on Obama. I despise Obama. The problem is the way he's going about it, as well as the outright nuttiness he acts out publicly on his radio show while promoting this alienating Obama Joker crap.
Like I said, occasionally a minor facet of a point he makes might not be perfect, but the big picture ( and at least 95% of the most minor points ) are spot on.
Hahahahahahaha
Alex Jones is not a “Holocaust Denierâ€
This wasn't claimed. He has, however, hosted discrediting holocaust deniers on his show.
I haven’t looked too much into this “Peak Oilâ€, but if Alex claims it is a fraud, it is certainly a claim to take seriously and look into.
WHAT!? What makes Alex so special that anything he questions suddenly makes it a legitimate debate? Would it make sense to see if Paris Hilton was a lizard in human skin if he simply claimed it? I strongly question your fact-checking skills.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Arcterus said:
Does it even matter? The problem isn't that he's hating on Obama. I despise Obama. The problem is the way he's going about it, as well as the outright nuttiness he acts out publicly on his radio show while promoting this alienating Obama Joker crap
I mean that is the point I am making. I am no fan of Obama either, but AJ is discrediting legitimate criticism of Obama with his antics. See this video of John Pilger for what a legitimate criticism of Obama should look like.
Posted 14 years ago # -
The point of those Joker posters is that it shouldn’t matter so much what race or ethnicity Obama is.. His administration is controlled by the same people who controlled the Bush Administration and he has been very dishonest throughout his Presidency.
This is not true as the Obama administration and the Bush administration represent different portions of the elite structures of our society. I would like to respond in greater length to this, but I do not have the time right now. I do recommend several books about how the elite structure of our society works: Thy Will Be Done by Gerard Colby and Charlotte Dennett; Powershift by Kirkpatrick Sale; anything by Peter Dale Scott; Power on the Right by William Turner; Made in Texas by Michael Lind. These are the best books I have read on these topics and none of them mention a "globalist elite" or a single, monolithic group of people that run the world. The elite structure of this society is extremely divided, very chaotic and multi-polar. AJ focuses solely on the Rockefellers and other Eastern Establishment families and their institutions (Trilateral Commission, CFR) in a shallow and often inaccurate way and does not touch other segments of the elite that are equally as powerful and often are or have been opposed to the agendas of the Eastern Establishment. When have you ever heard AJ discuss: the American Security Council, the World Anti-Communist League, CNP, the Committee on Present Danger, JBS, the Liberty Lobby, Western Goals Foundation, AEI, NAM, the Heritage Foundation, the Hoover Institute, World Security Network, Project Paperclip and the Gehlen Network? I suggest an interview AJ did with Peter Dale Scott when the topic of a chaotic elite structure came up and AJ's response was telling. See:
Posted 14 years ago # -
I’m not really a fan of the Joker thing, but it is Alex’s prerogative to do what he wants. He doesn’t stop others from doing things their own way. Alex is more well-known than you think, and I think there are a lot of different reasons that he occasionally engages in such antics. If one does not agree with that sort of communication, they should be an activist who communicates in their own way.
Alex’s facts are certainly accurate and his daily hard work has formed a backbone of the truth movement, whether you are willing to admit that fact or not.
Alex has broadcasted three or four hours a day most days for many past years, he has had all sorts of guests on his show, usually a few each day. Uniformity of people’s views is not possible and if he did have some sort of “Holocaust denier†on his show it was probably not a big deal and not even the focus of the discussion anyway, if I know Alex.
Would you prefer the situation to be like Canada, where you can be arrested for only questioning the Holocaust? The Holocaust was a tragedy but it is given disproportionate reverence if you compare it with similar situations which are happening even now or in the past few decades. Anyway here is no reason not to talk about the Holocaust, of course.
Also your claims that Bush and Obama are not controlled by the same people shows that you are not aware of those controlling people in the first place, and you are not familiar with the real globalist agendas. What do you think about the Bilderberg Group? The writings of Carrol Quigley? Have you seen “Endgame†or “The Obama Deception� Alex Focuses on the aspects that he does because they are the most driving forces in politics. Just because some authors don’t mention the global elite doesn’t mean that this elite does not exist.
In the Peter Dale Scott interview you supplied, Scott starts by acknowledging the false left/right paradigm the influence of the globalist bankers, shadow government, Obama being controlled by the same people, ect.. . I don’t understand why you supplied this clip as an example of Alex being somehow “wrongâ€.. Alex is agreeing with everything he is saying.
Posted 14 years ago # -
.. I listened to the rest of the Peter Dale Scott clip.. it was a great interview I don't understand why you would criticize it. Alex was in complete agreement on all points.
Posted 14 years ago # -
In the Peter Dale Scott interview you supplied, Scott starts by acknowledging the false left/right paradigm the influence of the globalist bankers, shadow government, Obama being controlled by the same people, ect.. . I don’t understand why you supplied this clip as an example of Alex being somehow “wrongâ€.. Alex is agreeing with everything he is saying.
.. I listened to the rest of the Peter Dale Scott clip.. it was a great interview I don't understand why you would criticize it. Alex was in complete agreement on all points.
I am criticizing AJ only. Not the interview as a whole. The interview is excellent from an educational standpoint. Listen to parts 2 and 3 if you did not. This is where AJ and PDS disagree. PDS does not acknowledge what you are saying he does. Please read chapter one in his book Deep Politics and the Death of JFK for further corroboration on Scott's arguments against the idea of a "shadow government."
Alex’s facts are certainly accurate and his daily hard work has formed a backbone of the truth movement, whether you are willing to admit that fact or not.
Matter of opinion, not a fact, and one I do not agree with. Even if AJ's facts are accurate, and I disagree that they usually are, I still feel that he does not deserve our attention because of his willingness to give a forum to and affiliate with people like Webster Tarpley.
I’m not really a fan of the Joker thing, but it is Alex’s prerogative to do what he wants. He doesn’t stop others from doing things their own way. Alex is more well-known than you think, and I think there are a lot of different reasons that he occasionally engages in such antics. If one does not agree with that sort of communication, they should be an activist who communicates in their own way.
I have never said that AJ is not well known. My other posts say that I think the opposite. Whether I like it or not, AJ's popularity has made him a major figure of this movement and his actions can often be seen by the general public as being representative of this movement. I think that a large portion of this movement sees how divisive, inflammatory and pointless from an educational perspective this Obama joker campaign is and understands why AJ should not be a major figure. If it is Alex’s prerogative to do what he wants, then it is our prerogative to be critical and push better researchers and activists to the forefront.
Also your claims that Bush and Obama are not controlled by the same people shows that you are not aware of those controlling people in the first place, and you are not familiar with the real globalist agendas. What do you think about the Bilderberg Group? The writings of Carrol Quigley? Have you seen “Endgame†or “The Obama Deception� Alex Focuses on the aspects that he does because they are the most driving forces in politics. Just because some authors don’t mention the global elite doesn’t mean that this elite does not exist.
Not familiar with the real globalist agendas? They are the most driving forces in politics? Please read, learn some American history, read about the history of the Birch Society and get information from sources other than AJ and then you will be able to put what AJ says into context. If you are too deluded by AJ to even do that, then why am I having this discussion? What basis do you have for saying that those are "the most driving forces in politics" other than that AJ, his followers and some of his guests say so?
Alex has broadcasted three or four hours a day most days for many past years, he has had all sorts of guests on his show, usually a few each day. Uniformity of people’s views is not possible and if he did have some sort of “Holocaust denier†on his show it was probably not a big deal and not even the focus of the discussion anyway, if I know Alex.
Would you prefer the situation to be like Canada, where you can be arrested for only questioning the Holocaust? The Holocaust was a tragedy but it is given disproportionate reverence if you compare it with similar situations which are happening even now or in the past few decades. Anyway here is no reason not to talk about the Holocaust, of course.
This is a big deal and if you do not think that giving a Holocaust denier a forum is a big deal, then I am done responding to you. This is not an issue of freedom of speech. This is not involving the law preventing someone from saying something.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Moderator Note
This conversation has gone off topic to the thread and does not appear to be productive. It is being closed temporarily as a result.
Personal Comment
Here's my favorite critical summary of AJ's crap.
http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/1415/page/2?r...
Noitv here is a representing AJ fandom in rare form. The faith based condescension. The confident inaccuracy. The lack of respect for people who know more than Alex Jones.
There is no arguing with faith. So let's not waste our time.
Posted 14 years ago # -
It's been a few months. I've been working on other 9/11 truth related projects. But the topic of my latest post has been bothering me for months. Feels good to get it off my chest.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Looks like Jonathan Mark noticed me trying to game his search results and has sent out an e-mail promoting the
9/11 Truth Leader Teleconference
Posted 14 years ago #
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